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	<title>Comments on: Neoshamanism is Masturbation</title>
	<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/</link>
	<description>se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yenki</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Kenn Day</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-180292</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenn Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 21:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-180292</guid>
		<description>It took longer to read through the many (!!) comments than it did the essay itself. However I would like to offer my own feedback. (I hope you still check your comments from time to time.) 

As a working shaman in our post-tribal culture I would agree with much of what you say. However, allow me to point out a point at which I disagree. 

You write: Today, “neoshamans” sell their services to strangers as “alternative medicine practitioners”–for a fee. They often operate alone. Shamans heal, but they never seek payment for it. They refuse to accept any gifts if the healing is not successful. And most importantly, shamans never work with strangers–they heal the members of their community. The community is essential: without a tribe, there is no shaman.

An excellent point, but you miss the fact that the traditional shaman is acting appropriately and competently within the strictures of HIr own culture. Within a traditional tribal culture, it makes perfect sense to operate without "pay", because the members of the tribe - especially the shaman - are taken care of by the web of the tribe. The shaman doesn't need to "charge" because SHe knows that her basic needs will be met as a member of that tribe. When a post-tribal shaman charges a reasonable rate for effective and competent services that heal and retrieve information for the client, SHe is ALSO operating in an appropriate and competent way within the strictures of our modern culture. 

When you study the behaviors of shamanic healers in different tribal cultures, you notice many similarities that arise from the cultural similarities of all tribal societies. Since we are not a tribal culture, we lack those structures and it would be absurd for us to work as if we did. 

That said, this lack of real community is one of the most pervasive wounds we carry as a people. For the most part, we have lost any real connection with our souls, our ancestors, the earth, spirit - we could go on. 

Is it any wonder that there are many people today who are stumbling along on the path of healing these wounds? If nature abhors a vacuum, it's about time this one was filled. 

namaste,

Kenn Day
www.shamanstouch.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It took longer to read through the many (!!) comments than it did the essay itself. However I would like to offer my own feedback. (I hope you still check your comments from time to time.) </p>
<p>As a working shaman in our post-tribal culture I would agree with much of what you say. However, allow me to point out a point at which I disagree. </p>
<p>You write: Today, “neoshamans” sell their services to strangers as “alternative medicine practitioners”–for a fee. They often operate alone. Shamans heal, but they never seek payment for it. They refuse to accept any gifts if the healing is not successful. And most importantly, shamans never work with strangers–they heal the members of their community. The community is essential: without a tribe, there is no shaman.</p>
<p>An excellent point, but you miss the fact that the traditional shaman is acting appropriately and competently within the strictures of HIr own culture. Within a traditional tribal culture, it makes perfect sense to operate without &#8220;pay&#8221;, because the members of the tribe - especially the shaman - are taken care of by the web of the tribe. The shaman doesn&#8217;t need to &#8220;charge&#8221; because SHe knows that her basic needs will be met as a member of that tribe. When a post-tribal shaman charges a reasonable rate for effective and competent services that heal and retrieve information for the client, SHe is ALSO operating in an appropriate and competent way within the strictures of our modern culture. </p>
<p>When you study the behaviors of shamanic healers in different tribal cultures, you notice many similarities that arise from the cultural similarities of all tribal societies. Since we are not a tribal culture, we lack those structures and it would be absurd for us to work as if we did. </p>
<p>That said, this lack of real community is one of the most pervasive wounds we carry as a people. For the most part, we have lost any real connection with our souls, our ancestors, the earth, spirit - we could go on. </p>
<p>Is it any wonder that there are many people today who are stumbling along on the path of healing these wounds? If nature abhors a vacuum, it&#8217;s about time this one was filled. </p>
<p>namaste,</p>
<p>Kenn Day<br />
<a href="http://www.shamanstouch.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.shamanstouch.com</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Maq</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-93105</link>
		<dc:creator>Maq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 08:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-93105</guid>
		<description>1)Small groups or "tribes",&#38; large groups "collective", "humanity".

2)Consciousness came to be, through art making &#38; self expression. Something....."snapped."

The greatest manifestations of self -expression &#38; works of art have never been practical.Yet, can &#38; have been the most influential, especially in relation to cultural shifts.Everything that exists, is first born in our minds, in effect this defines time.It is up to us to be sporadic in our internal thinking or to discover many realms of continuity.

Linear, non-linear.Peripheral &#38; panoptic.Earthly, cosmic.Etc.

The positive nature of destruction has rarely been used for much of history ( renewal &#38; rebirth ).
We , consciousness, was born out of a dawning awareness of cycles of renewal &#38; rebirth.

Then, we created the symbolic &#38; systematic , economic practice of supply &#38; demand, ascertaining spiritual, social, political, material &#38; immaterial values. 
But this is interesting , because as we have evolved throughout history this way, so have our layers of perception &#38; our possibilities.All that we manifest &#38; how it profoundly effects our sense of time &#38; place, self &#38; other, etc.
But as of the last few centuries, we have lost our intuitive connect as far as our relationship to the earth which supplies us with our existence, &#38; ironically, now we must discover it.We really have never, done this before.
Even for cultures that have &#38; still do live at peace with nature, now we are all really in the same boat.Certainly we can learn, from those that do, the native Amazonians for instance.

Every single individual, has intuitive ability, across the globe, all backgrounds, cultures.It is more complex to be able to, or wish to tap into our natural intuition.Make the time to fully and consistently tap deeply into ourselves and others and the world around us.
&#38; all forms are equal whether someone may have strong intuition or mild intuition, it really does not make a difference.The only difference is which consciously chooses to tap into their senses.We all suffer, but not all of us seek the pure reality behind our pain, how to prevent pain, understand pain , relieve pain, pain awareness. Same to be said for happiness, and everything else.
Especially tapping into the experiences of others &#38; what one garners out of these experiences.

"Shamans", to term someone a Shaman is,  cultural,"Tribal."

In the western industrialized world, a journalist in Iraq can be a Shaman, a pianist, a surgeon, a farmer, a novelist, someone who may suffer  mental illness, a homeless individual, an eco- entrepreneur, etc, this is determined by the awareness, nature &#38; outcome, influence, uniqueness, practice, consistency &#38; quality of such acts.

&#38; they do not even have to be aware.They are, very much gifted or emotionally aware, intuitive and practiced &#38; inspired, in their own way.

What concerns me is that the industrialized world places more emphasis on those who do not inspire &#38; heal others, than those that do.
So we all fall prey to repeatedly unnatural, illusory, negative and manipulative distractions.
By tapping into a human beings fears &#38; ego..Then we become conditioned to return to these illusions and depend on them, manage &#38; create a life for them.
There is a unique influential flow to each individuals life that can get lost as a result.We lose human unity.Even an intimate, mutual, fully aware, sexual act can give us knowledge &#38; visions &#38; inspired true motives as to where our lives are headed.Good or bad.
But we exploit &#38; idealize sexuality so much that we get lost &#38; rarely tap into our intuitive &#38; viceral feelings about intimacy &#38; knowledge of others. Communicate our feelings.
We maintain or lack consistency in acquiring knowledge from each other &#38; take each other for granted &#38; thus, our earth.
The reality is, that an archetype does not exist until it is alive &#38; has been practiced, conscious, created. We smother people with false archetypes that just lead to one-dimensional being.
There are ways no not tap into a human beings fears &#38; egos &#38; lacks &#38; create a thriving world, obviously we are working on this. I am optimistic, excited really.
I think we should all focus more energy on those people in our lives, the lives of objects &#38; things, events &#38; natures that consistently inspire  &#38; heal us. Help us grow, acknowledge our right to these experiences for others &#38; ourselves.
Observe more, open ourselves, educate ourselves &#38; apply our natures to the reality/ies instead of applying reality/ies to- our natures.There is a difference.

Then, i think we may be able to use our "collective" intuition together more readily &#38; positively, especially in relation to the environment. &#38;, solve many problems.Better leaders.More to follow.


&#38; we are all inspired &#38; debating about this topic, which i think is great.

Reading about cultural/tribal shamans, is great.It is endless all that one can learn from cultures still managing/struggling to thrive around the world today &#38; even our innaccurate history.

Thank you, for letting me share my thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1)Small groups or &#8220;tribes&#8221;,&amp; large groups &#8220;collective&#8221;, &#8220;humanity&#8221;.</p>
<p>2)Consciousness came to be, through art making &amp; self expression. Something&#8230;..&#8221;snapped.&#8221;</p>
<p>The greatest manifestations of self -expression &amp; works of art have never been practical.Yet, can &amp; have been the most influential, especially in relation to cultural shifts.Everything that exists, is first born in our minds, in effect this defines time.It is up to us to be sporadic in our internal thinking or to discover many realms of continuity.</p>
<p>Linear, non-linear.Peripheral &amp; panoptic.Earthly, cosmic.Etc.</p>
<p>The positive nature of destruction has rarely been used for much of history ( renewal &amp; rebirth ).<br />
We , consciousness, was born out of a dawning awareness of cycles of renewal &amp; rebirth.</p>
<p>Then, we created the symbolic &amp; systematic , economic practice of supply &amp; demand, ascertaining spiritual, social, political, material &amp; immaterial values.<br />
But this is interesting , because as we have evolved throughout history this way, so have our layers of perception &amp; our possibilities.All that we manifest &amp; how it profoundly effects our sense of time &amp; place, self &amp; other, etc.<br />
But as of the last few centuries, we have lost our intuitive connect as far as our relationship to the earth which supplies us with our existence, &amp; ironically, now we must discover it.We really have never, done this before.<br />
Even for cultures that have &amp; still do live at peace with nature, now we are all really in the same boat.Certainly we can learn, from those that do, the native Amazonians for instance.</p>
<p>Every single individual, has intuitive ability, across the globe, all backgrounds, cultures.It is more complex to be able to, or wish to tap into our natural intuition.Make the time to fully and consistently tap deeply into ourselves and others and the world around us.<br />
&amp; all forms are equal whether someone may have strong intuition or mild intuition, it really does not make a difference.The only difference is which consciously chooses to tap into their senses.We all suffer, but not all of us seek the pure reality behind our pain, how to prevent pain, understand pain , relieve pain, pain awareness. Same to be said for happiness, and everything else.<br />
Especially tapping into the experiences of others &amp; what one garners out of these experiences.</p>
<p>&#8220;Shamans&#8221;, to term someone a Shaman is,  cultural,&#8221;Tribal.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the western industrialized world, a journalist in Iraq can be a Shaman, a pianist, a surgeon, a farmer, a novelist, someone who may suffer  mental illness, a homeless individual, an eco- entrepreneur, etc, this is determined by the awareness, nature &amp; outcome, influence, uniqueness, practice, consistency &amp; quality of such acts.</p>
<p>&amp; they do not even have to be aware.They are, very much gifted or emotionally aware, intuitive and practiced &amp; inspired, in their own way.</p>
<p>What concerns me is that the industrialized world places more emphasis on those who do not inspire &amp; heal others, than those that do.<br />
So we all fall prey to repeatedly unnatural, illusory, negative and manipulative distractions.<br />
By tapping into a human beings fears &amp; ego..Then we become conditioned to return to these illusions and depend on them, manage &amp; create a life for them.<br />
There is a unique influential flow to each individuals life that can get lost as a result.We lose human unity.Even an intimate, mutual, fully aware, sexual act can give us knowledge &amp; visions &amp; inspired true motives as to where our lives are headed.Good or bad.<br />
But we exploit &amp; idealize sexuality so much that we get lost &amp; rarely tap into our intuitive &amp; viceral feelings about intimacy &amp; knowledge of others. Communicate our feelings.<br />
We maintain or lack consistency in acquiring knowledge from each other &amp; take each other for granted &amp; thus, our earth.<br />
The reality is, that an archetype does not exist until it is alive &amp; has been practiced, conscious, created. We smother people with false archetypes that just lead to one-dimensional being.<br />
There are ways no not tap into a human beings fears &amp; egos &amp; lacks &amp; create a thriving world, obviously we are working on this. I am optimistic, excited really.<br />
I think we should all focus more energy on those people in our lives, the lives of objects &amp; things, events &amp; natures that consistently inspire  &amp; heal us. Help us grow, acknowledge our right to these experiences for others &amp; ourselves.<br />
Observe more, open ourselves, educate ourselves &amp; apply our natures to the reality/ies instead of applying reality/ies to- our natures.There is a difference.</p>
<p>Then, i think we may be able to use our &#8220;collective&#8221; intuition together more readily &amp; positively, especially in relation to the environment. &amp;, solve many problems.Better leaders.More to follow.</p>
<p>&amp; we are all inspired &amp; debating about this topic, which i think is great.</p>
<p>Reading about cultural/tribal shamans, is great.It is endless all that one can learn from cultures still managing/struggling to thrive around the world today &amp; even our innaccurate history.</p>
<p>Thank you, for letting me share my thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-45760</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-45760</guid>
		<description>Wonderfully written, but your "take no prisoners" style and content toward the novelists is unfair and smacks of the posture of a fundamentalist preacher. We can afford to be inclusive and non-defensive in the cause of traveling the winding road towardg authetic shamanism in the 21st century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderfully written, but your &#8220;take no prisoners&#8221; style and content toward the novelists is unfair and smacks of the posture of a fundamentalist preacher. We can afford to be inclusive and non-defensive in the cause of traveling the winding road towardg authetic shamanism in the 21st century.</p>
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		<title>By: Psychenaut</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-43417</link>
		<dc:creator>Psychenaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-43417</guid>
		<description>No ideology is more important than what we share with one another... overthink the point, miss the moment and we end up neglecting one another and our transcending truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No ideology is more important than what we share with one another&#8230; overthink the point, miss the moment and we end up neglecting one another and our transcending truth.</p>
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		<title>By: jhereg</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41967</link>
		<dc:creator>jhereg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41967</guid>
		<description>Chuck, I don't think so. We have people that at least [b]partially[/b] fill those roles now. Artists, healers (physical/mental/emotional), scientists; these are fragmentary roles, but can we really not husband them together? Is it really so impossible to imagine that we can take those as a starting points?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuck, I don&#8217;t think so. We have people that at least [b]partially[/b] fill those roles now. Artists, healers (physical/mental/emotional), scientists; these are fragmentary roles, but can we really not husband them together? Is it really so impossible to imagine that we can take those as a starting points?</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41964</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41964</guid>
		<description>Jhereg, that would require an actual modern shaman to show us the way. 

- Chuck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jhereg, that would require an actual modern shaman to show us the way. </p>
<p>- Chuck</p>
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		<title>By: jhereg</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41963</link>
		<dc:creator>jhereg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41963</guid>
		<description>I've been giving today's round of comments a great deal of consideration, and first off, I'd like to apologize. I didn't realize until today just how dissatisfied I've become with the term "shaman", and should have presented my case differently from the onset.

Nonetheless, I do feel that the word has lost almost all of it's original meaning in the [b]living[/b] language that we must communicate in. At the same time, the [b]anthropological[/b] meaning makes me feel straightjacketed.

Jason, you yourself said:
[quote]There's a war on, after all. It's a war for hearts and minds; a war of memes. [/quote]

And part of that war [b]is[/b] the living language that we communicate in. I'm afraid that we have all but lost the battle for the word "shaman".

I still think that there is a disguised opportunity here though. I share your disdain for neoshamans and their shallow ilk. But what if we could reframe what it means to be shaman? What if we could show our co-workers and family and friends how they fill the roles that shamans fill? I think we could make a real step forward, it may be a baby step, but a step nonetheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been giving today&#8217;s round of comments a great deal of consideration, and first off, I&#8217;d like to apologize. I didn&#8217;t realize until today just how dissatisfied I&#8217;ve become with the term &#8220;shaman&#8221;, and should have presented my case differently from the onset.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I do feel that the word has lost almost all of it&#8217;s original meaning in the [b]living[/b] language that we must communicate in. At the same time, the [b]anthropological[/b] meaning makes me feel straightjacketed.</p>
<p>Jason, you yourself said:<br />
[quote]There&#8217;s a war on, after all. It&#8217;s a war for hearts and minds; a war of memes. [/quote]</p>
<p>And part of that war [b]is[/b] the living language that we communicate in. I&#8217;m afraid that we have all but lost the battle for the word &#8220;shaman&#8221;.</p>
<p>I still think that there is a disguised opportunity here though. I share your disdain for neoshamans and their shallow ilk. But what if we could reframe what it means to be shaman? What if we could show our co-workers and family and friends how they fill the roles that shamans fill? I think we could make a real step forward, it may be a baby step, but a step nonetheless.</p>
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		<title>By: Hasha</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41949</link>
		<dc:creator>Hasha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 00:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41949</guid>
		<description>Jason, first a comment and then a question. 

Comment. You said: 

[quote] There is a great deal of beneficial work that has nothing at all to do with shamanism. It really doesn't matter how beneficial it is; if it's not shamanism, then it's not shamanism, and going around calling yourself a shaman is just romantic masturbation, and it's deeply offensive to those shamans that still are around, to say nothing of the other Native groups who refuse to tolerate such a shallow appropriation of their culture. [/quote] 

I really don’t think that Native groups would care much if you called yourself a shaman. What they are deeply offended by is when people steal from their traditions and then use them to their own ends, completely out of context in which those traditions evolved. I have just as much of a problem with stealing from other traditions as you do. It’s just that the word ‘shaman’ is not so loaded for me and I’m not so touchy about who calls him/herself a shaman. 

Question. What exactly is your issue with what Mama Killa said? Do you simply have a problem with calling the people that she’s talking about shamans, or are you saying that those people are doing nothing more than ‘masturbating’? (Because if it’s the former, than we’re back to the question of terminology, and I’m happy to let you have it your way because I don’t really care one way or another. If it’s the latter, than we’re indeed in disagreement over more than terminology.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, first a comment and then a question. </p>
<p>Comment. You said: </p>
<p>[quote] There is a great deal of beneficial work that has nothing at all to do with shamanism. It really doesn&#8217;t matter how beneficial it is; if it&#8217;s not shamanism, then it&#8217;s not shamanism, and going around calling yourself a shaman is just romantic masturbation, and it&#8217;s deeply offensive to those shamans that still are around, to say nothing of the other Native groups who refuse to tolerate such a shallow appropriation of their culture. [/quote] </p>
<p>I really don’t think that Native groups would care much if you called yourself a shaman. What they are deeply offended by is when people steal from their traditions and then use them to their own ends, completely out of context in which those traditions evolved. I have just as much of a problem with stealing from other traditions as you do. It’s just that the word ‘shaman’ is not so loaded for me and I’m not so touchy about who calls him/herself a shaman. </p>
<p>Question. What exactly is your issue with what Mama Killa said? Do you simply have a problem with calling the people that she’s talking about shamans, or are you saying that those people are doing nothing more than ‘masturbating’? (Because if it’s the former, than we’re back to the question of terminology, and I’m happy to let you have it your way because I don’t really care one way or another. If it’s the latter, than we’re indeed in disagreement over more than terminology.)</p>
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		<title>By: jhereg</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41841</link>
		<dc:creator>jhereg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41841</guid>
		<description>[quote]But we're talking about neoshamans.[/quote]

Yes, the topic did start there didn't it? :-)

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I doubt that everyone that Mama Killa referenced falls under that title. 

The issue of payment was explicitly cited. I don't have any trouble seeing a community member that performs such services and still accepting money (possibly even charging money). Is it true shamanism? No. But it does overlap it, and that's where the confusion comes in.

I know you want to draw a hard line here, and I understand why. But I also understand why people get confused about it. There has been so much abuse to the word "shaman" that I'm not even sure it's useful anymore.

[quote]I've been counting, and so far, I only really have two that I'd really feel comfortable identifying as such: First Shaman, and Jesus. 
[/quote]

:-)

Well, I think that's a bit overly pessimistic of you, but then, perhaps my standards are lower.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote]But we&#8217;re talking about neoshamans.[/quote]</p>
<p>Yes, the topic did start there didn&#8217;t it? <img src='http://anthropik.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Perhaps I&#8217;m wrong, but I doubt that everyone that Mama Killa referenced falls under that title. </p>
<p>The issue of payment was explicitly cited. I don&#8217;t have any trouble seeing a community member that performs such services and still accepting money (possibly even charging money). Is it true shamanism? No. But it does overlap it, and that&#8217;s where the confusion comes in.</p>
<p>I know you want to draw a hard line here, and I understand why. But I also understand why people get confused about it. There has been so much abuse to the word &#8220;shaman&#8221; that I&#8217;m not even sure it&#8217;s useful anymore.</p>
<p>[quote]I&#8217;ve been counting, and so far, I only really have two that I&#8217;d really feel comfortable identifying as such: First Shaman, and Jesus.<br />
[/quote]</p>
<p> <img src='http://anthropik.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Well, I think that&#8217;s a bit overly pessimistic of you, but then, perhaps my standards are lower.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Godesky</title>
		<link>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41829</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Godesky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/#comment-41829</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Agreed. But who says we don't have a community? Surely, our community is not as strong as our forebears (well, if you go back far enough), but that isn't to say that we have no community. What are our artists, then? Are there not artists who act as communicators between the spirit community and their human community?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sure, and it's important to remember that art began with shamanism.  There's hints of it still there.  But we're talking about neoshamans.  Some of these guys will "treat" complete strangers, as a mere service rendered.  They have invoices.  Where's the community in that?  I've written several articles about restoring the shamanic traditon, but that's not what neoshamanism is about.

&lt;blockquote&gt;...but that is not to say that aspects of shamanism aren't being practiced in the here and now by civilized people, no matter how unknowingly. I think that if you were to rip away the tint of language on this and look afresh, you might be amazed to find many people right before you who have, to limited extents, adjusted for The Sickness. This then, is why I suggested a continuum concept.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree with you absolutely on this, but again, the subject at hand is &lt;em&gt;neoshamanism&lt;/em&gt;.  I find very strong echoes of shamanism all through our culture, but not in neoshamanism.  Neoshamans make "shamanism" nothing more than doctors with body paint, a tribal Ph.D. from a weekend seminar.  This is hardly the same thing as a real shaman&#8212;or even an artist, or a wildlife biologist, or a forester, all of whom carry much more of our culture's shamanistic heritage than neoshamanism.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I do think that there are people who have made it through The Sickness with only the help of spirits, though I have no doubt that they are few and far between.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I've been counting, and so far, I only really have two that I'd really feel comfortable identifying as such: First Shaman, and &lt;a href="http://anthropik.com/2005/10/betraying-the-son-of-man/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jesus&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Agreed. But who says we don&#8217;t have a community? Surely, our community is not as strong as our forebears (well, if you go back far enough), but that isn&#8217;t to say that we have no community. What are our artists, then? Are there not artists who act as communicators between the spirit community and their human community?</p></blockquote>
<p>Sure, and it&#8217;s important to remember that art began with shamanism.  There&#8217;s hints of it still there.  But we&#8217;re talking about neoshamans.  Some of these guys will &#8220;treat&#8221; complete strangers, as a mere service rendered.  They have invoices.  Where&#8217;s the community in that?  I&#8217;ve written several articles about restoring the shamanic traditon, but that&#8217;s not what neoshamanism is about.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;but that is not to say that aspects of shamanism aren&#8217;t being practiced in the here and now by civilized people, no matter how unknowingly. I think that if you were to rip away the tint of language on this and look afresh, you might be amazed to find many people right before you who have, to limited extents, adjusted for The Sickness. This then, is why I suggested a continuum concept.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree with you absolutely on this, but again, the subject at hand is <em>neoshamanism</em>.  I find very strong echoes of shamanism all through our culture, but not in neoshamanism.  Neoshamans make &#8220;shamanism&#8221; nothing more than doctors with body paint, a tribal Ph.D. from a weekend seminar.  This is hardly the same thing as a real shaman&mdash;or even an artist, or a wildlife biologist, or a forester, all of whom carry much more of our culture&#8217;s shamanistic heritage than neoshamanism.</p>
<blockquote><p>I do think that there are people who have made it through The Sickness with only the help of spirits, though I have no doubt that they are few and far between.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve been counting, and so far, I only really have two that I&#8217;d really feel comfortable identifying as such: First Shaman, and <a href="http://anthropik.com/2005/10/betraying-the-son-of-man/" rel="nofollow">Jesus</a>.</p>
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