We’ve had a lot of postsaboutshamanismlately, but no open thread in quite some time. So, we’re opening it up to any important thoughts about shamanism you think I missed. Enjoy!
The characters and the setting change, but it’s always the same. I’m always pursued by some terrifying monster(s). They always catch me, in the end, and when they do, they tear me limb from limb.
That’s when I wake up.
The dreams have stopped since Giuli moved in with me, but now I wonder if I haven’t missed a very important opportunity.
If I do have the dream again, hopefully this time, I’ll have the courage to see it through.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 19 October 2005 @ 11:40 AM
Have you read Pinchbeck’s Breaking Open the Head? It’s about shamanism. I haven’t read it yet.
Dude, where did you apply for the Yahoo ads at right? I need a specific url.
1. It was pretty good. There are better introductions, but it was still pretty good. Actually, Daniel C. Noel’s The Soul of Shamanism is probably a better introduction. And for all his faults, Harner’s The Way of the Shaman is still very useful as a “how-to” guide.
2. A while. Looks like I applied October 7, and I got the reply today, so … 12 days. Felt like longer, but maybe that’s because Google cut me off just as I started a significant traffic spike–and Yahoo picked me up just as it ended. Dammit, I could’ve eaten next week!
Comment by Jason Godesky — 19 October 2005 @ 1:40 PM
I have had similar dismemberment dreams in the past. I’ve also noticed that when I slow down the pace of my lifestyle (such as not working full-time, allowing more time for walks, meditations, and community-based activity, and living in less stressful environments), I begin to have very vivid warning dreams about future events that inevitably come true. I initially tried to suppress these dreams, because they were in fact terrifying, and I didn’t have anyone I could turn to as any kind of guide or mentor. But I think that it was probably very typical of all people to have these kinds of dreams before the 40+ hour work week and organized religious, then scientific disdain for ancient traditions took over. It’s almost like there is so much there, just waiting to be heard, but we insist on blocking it out, and use the clamor of civilization to drown it out.
Thanks, Jason, for the articles on shamanism and neoshamanism. I made several much more feeble attempts to say the same thing over at Ishcon, but you’ve summed up my sentiments far better than I did.
Coyote’s forcing me to put in a comment on this (not that I’ve made enough of an ass out of myself elsewhere). The dismemberment dreams and shamanic sickness are an invitation meant for tribal humans.
The missing piece which was an absolute -fact- of human life was that you were willing to give up your life for your tribe. What the spirits were asking (with both the dismemberment and/or sickness) was would you accept the same relationship with them. Would you die for them?
Of course, contact with such entities could be fatal if you said ‘no’. The invitation was severe and sincere. But I have a suspicion that the spirits were pretty good at finding ‘yes’ candidates. You have to be strong to be able to maintain such a connection.
Comment by Bill Maxwell — 24 October 2005 @ 3:58 AM
Jason,
Sometimes when repetitive dreams cease their repitition, it’s because the choice they’ve been pushing you to make has been fulfilled. Over a period of five years I had dreams of a particular man, and over that time they increased in frequency and emotional impact. They finally stopped after I eventually studied with him.
Jason;
I am not sure If you know what your dream meant.
Shamanist practises in diverse regions, this kind of visions [or dreams] all indicates same thing. Approving to be shaman of the individual by Spirits. And Spirits renewing the individual for being shaman by killing him/her, renew his/her body parts and rebirth him/her. This is the vision approving one to be a shaman.
As Bill said, Would you die for your tribe?
If you did not ready to this, you couldn’t see this. You are ready. Just accept! Die and reborn..
Comment by Benjamin Shender — 8 January 2006 @ 7:05 PM
There’s an interesting article about harnessing the spiritual practices of individuals and focusing them on social ills — such as neutralizing pollution — on the AuthorViews web site. It’s written by Sandra Ingerman, author of the book, “Medicine for the Earth: How to Transform Personal and Environmental Toxins.”
Comment by Steve O'Keefe — 12 February 2006 @ 9:37 PM
Ingerman’s a close associate of Michael Harner, who’s more than just a tad, shall we say, controversial. I take anything from the Foundation for Shamanic Studies with more than a little grain of salt.
My question is, how do I deal with the loneliness of this path I’ve been forced to follow? Believe me, I’ve tried to step off it more than once… But as I will not accept insanity or suicide as options, I continue to walk this path laid out before me. Though sometimes I’m still kicking and screaming about it.
Comment by ChandraShakti — 26 February 2006 @ 11:19 PM
Good, as long as you’re kicking and screaming you might get through almost sane. Right?
Comment by Benjamin Shender — 26 February 2006 @ 11:42 PM
ChandraShakti,
That loneliness thing is really something isn’t it?
For me, it always points to my ego getting involved. Somehow the little B*****D has a hand in it. One way or another.
If I could just get my hands on him I would have choked the !@#$ out of him, by now. But he’s slippery. And FAST! Ohhh, but one day!!!!!
Amping up the pulse of the Life Force into and through my body always helps. It reminds me of my real self. Walking in the woods helps, too.
Now, the need to be of service to my tribe is always present. Whoever they are. It almost hurts not to have them with me, physically. One day we will be together, again. To continue our journey.
I suspect insanity is part of the job description.
Except, when I got there I realized I was actually becoming more sane. Or, something …..
Having non-drug-induced non-ordinary reality flash into existence in parallel with ordinary reality can be really uhhhh, something. Kind of like having archetypes or mythic characters pop into existence for real.
Thanks. Contemplating your question has been helpful. Though I suspect my focus wandered somewhere along the way.
Maybe it would be better to kick and scream?
If anything laugh at this comment. Sometimes that helps a bunch.
I never had dismemberment. But I had a recurring unicorn a while back. Or rather, it didn’t look like a unicorn at the time, but I realised it was later. (Does this make ANY sense?) Weirds me out, certainly.
Actually, Eric, I suspect that I’m the sanest person I know. Though society would quite likely lock me up in an asylum if they really realized how I function. re:”I suspect insanity is part of the job description.
Except, when I got there I realized I was actually becoming more sane. Or, something …..”
Speedbird, I’ve actually not had the dismemberment thing either. And the closest I’ve actually been to death was a case of gastroenteritis that had me hospitalized for a week at age 7. Though that seems to be the most common way people find themselves set on this path, it is by no means the only way. And yes, the unicorn makes perfect sense to me. I live with those kinds of experiences all the time.
Though I don’t have any statistical data or scientific explanations for this, from personal experience, conversations and anecdotes, I believe the “sickness” is essentially a psycho-somatic manfestation of personal traumas or perceived limitations which keep the person from committing to one path or the other. To be a shaman or not, that is one of those indecisions which can kill you.
And the dismemberment thing appears to be culturally transmitted imagery as far as I can tell. The underlying reality may be identical, but can appear in many other forms.
Have we podfaded? Honestly, yes. We still harbor plans to bring back the podcast, once we have a place where we can record! Expect us back sometime in 2008.
The Directory gathers links to some of the best rewilding and primitivist sites we know of, gathers them in one place. Syndicated from the Anthropik Ma.gnolia Group.
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For three years, I’ve had the same dream.
The characters and the setting change, but it’s always the same. I’m always pursued by some terrifying monster(s). They always catch me, in the end, and when they do, they tear me limb from limb.
That’s when I wake up.
The dreams have stopped since Giuli moved in with me, but now I wonder if I haven’t missed a very important opportunity.
If I do have the dream again, hopefully this time, I’ll have the courage to see it through.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 19 October 2005 @ 11:40 AM
Have you read Pinchbeck’s Breaking Open the Head? It’s about shamanism. I haven’t read it yet.
Dude, where did you apply for the Yahoo ads at right? I need a specific url.
Comment by Peter — 19 October 2005 @ 12:23 PM
1. Yes; actually, I linked to his book’s website in one of those articles.
2. It’s still in beta, so there’s no guarantee on acceptance. I was just accepted today. Application link at http://publisher.yahoo.com/
Comment by Jason Godesky — 19 October 2005 @ 12:26 PM
1. Do you recommend Pinchbeck’s book as a good intro to the subject of shamanism?
2. Thanks. The Adsense program has really deteriorated over the past 18 months earnings wise, as I explain on my blog.
Comment by Peter — 19 October 2005 @ 12:35 PM
How long did you have to wait for approval after application?
Comment by Peter — 19 October 2005 @ 12:37 PM
1. It was pretty good. There are better introductions, but it was still pretty good. Actually, Daniel C. Noel’s The Soul of Shamanism is probably a better introduction. And for all his faults, Harner’s The Way of the Shaman is still very useful as a “how-to” guide.
2. A while. Looks like I applied October 7, and I got the reply today, so … 12 days. Felt like longer, but maybe that’s because Google cut me off just as I started a significant traffic spike–and Yahoo picked me up just as it ended. Dammit, I could’ve eaten next week!
Comment by Jason Godesky — 19 October 2005 @ 1:40 PM
I have had similar dismemberment dreams in the past. I’ve also noticed that when I slow down the pace of my lifestyle (such as not working full-time, allowing more time for walks, meditations, and community-based activity, and living in less stressful environments), I begin to have very vivid warning dreams about future events that inevitably come true. I initially tried to suppress these dreams, because they were in fact terrifying, and I didn’t have anyone I could turn to as any kind of guide or mentor. But I think that it was probably very typical of all people to have these kinds of dreams before the 40+ hour work week and organized religious, then scientific disdain for ancient traditions took over. It’s almost like there is so much there, just waiting to be heard, but we insist on blocking it out, and use the clamor of civilization to drown it out.
Thanks, Jason, for the articles on shamanism and neoshamanism. I made several much more feeble attempts to say the same thing over at Ishcon, but you’ve summed up my sentiments far better than I did.
Roxy
Comment by Raku — 19 October 2005 @ 2:02 PM
Coyote’s forcing me to put in a comment on this (not that I’ve made enough of an ass out of myself elsewhere). The dismemberment dreams and shamanic sickness are an invitation meant for tribal humans.
The missing piece which was an absolute -fact- of human life was that you were willing to give up your life for your tribe. What the spirits were asking (with both the dismemberment and/or sickness) was would you accept the same relationship with them. Would you die for them?
Of course, contact with such entities could be fatal if you said ‘no’. The invitation was severe and sincere. But I have a suspicion that the spirits were pretty good at finding ‘yes’ candidates. You have to be strong to be able to maintain such a connection.
Comment by Bill Maxwell — 24 October 2005 @ 3:58 AM
Jason,
Sometimes when repetitive dreams cease their repitition, it’s because the choice they’ve been pushing you to make has been fulfilled. Over a period of five years I had dreams of a particular man, and over that time they increased in frequency and emotional impact. They finally stopped after I eventually studied with him.
Comment by scruff — 26 December 2005 @ 5:13 PM
Jason;
I am not sure If you know what your dream meant.
Shamanist practises in diverse regions, this kind of visions [or dreams] all indicates same thing. Approving to be shaman of the individual by Spirits. And Spirits renewing the individual for being shaman by killing him/her, renew his/her body parts and rebirth him/her. This is the vision approving one to be a shaman.
As Bill said, Would you die for your tribe?
If you did not ready to this, you couldn’t see this. You are ready. Just accept! Die and reborn..
Comment by Elfun — 8 January 2006 @ 5:50 PM
Jason knows.
Comment by Benjamin Shender — 8 January 2006 @ 7:05 PM
There’s an interesting article about harnessing the spiritual practices of individuals and focusing them on social ills — such as neutralizing pollution — on the AuthorViews web site. It’s written by Sandra Ingerman, author of the book, “Medicine for the Earth: How to Transform Personal and Environmental Toxins.”
Check it out at:
http://www.authorviews.com/authors/ingerman/excerpt.php
Comment by Steve O'Keefe — 12 February 2006 @ 9:37 PM
Ingerman’s a close associate of Michael Harner, who’s more than just a tad, shall we say, controversial. I take anything from the Foundation for Shamanic Studies with more than a little grain of salt.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 12 February 2006 @ 10:03 PM
My question is, how do I deal with the loneliness of this path I’ve been forced to follow? Believe me, I’ve tried to step off it more than once… But as I will not accept insanity or suicide as options, I continue to walk this path laid out before me. Though sometimes I’m still kicking and screaming about it.
Comment by ChandraShakti — 26 February 2006 @ 11:19 PM
Good, as long as you’re kicking and screaming you might get through almost sane. Right?
Comment by Benjamin Shender — 26 February 2006 @ 11:42 PM
ChandraShakti,
That loneliness thing is really something isn’t it?
For me, it always points to my ego getting involved. Somehow the little B*****D has a hand in it. One way or another.
If I could just get my hands on him I would have choked the !@#$ out of him, by now. But he’s slippery. And FAST! Ohhh, but one day!!!!!
Amping up the pulse of the Life Force into and through my body always helps. It reminds me of my real self. Walking in the woods helps, too.
Now, the need to be of service to my tribe is always present. Whoever they are. It almost hurts not to have them with me, physically. One day we will be together, again. To continue our journey.
I suspect insanity is part of the job description.
Except, when I got there I realized I was actually becoming more sane. Or, something …..
Having non-drug-induced non-ordinary reality flash into existence in parallel with ordinary reality can be really uhhhh, something. Kind of like having archetypes or mythic characters pop into existence for real.
Thanks. Contemplating your question has been helpful. Though I suspect my focus wandered somewhere along the way.
Maybe it would be better to kick and scream?
If anything laugh at this comment. Sometimes that helps a bunch.
Eric
Comment by Eric — 27 February 2006 @ 1:06 AM
I never had dismemberment. But I had a recurring unicorn a while back. Or rather, it didn’t look like a unicorn at the time, but I realised it was later. (Does this make ANY sense?) Weirds me out, certainly.
Comment by speedbird — 27 February 2006 @ 5:56 AM
Actually, Eric, I suspect that I’m the sanest person I know. Though society would quite likely lock me up in an asylum if they really realized how I function. re:”I suspect insanity is part of the job description.
Except, when I got there I realized I was actually becoming more sane. Or, something …..”
Speedbird, I’ve actually not had the dismemberment thing either. And the closest I’ve actually been to death was a case of gastroenteritis that had me hospitalized for a week at age 7. Though that seems to be the most common way people find themselves set on this path, it is by no means the only way. And yes, the unicorn makes perfect sense to me. I live with those kinds of experiences all the time.
Comment by ChandraShakti — 1 March 2006 @ 4:16 AM
Actually, more shamans “inherit” the role than suffer the sickness.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 1 March 2006 @ 4:14 PM
Though I don’t have any statistical data or scientific explanations for this, from personal experience, conversations and anecdotes, I believe the “sickness” is essentially a psycho-somatic manfestation of personal traumas or perceived limitations which keep the person from committing to one path or the other. To be a shaman or not, that is one of those indecisions which can kill you.
And the dismemberment thing appears to be culturally transmitted imagery as far as I can tell. The underlying reality may be identical, but can appear in many other forms.
Comment by scruff — 1 March 2006 @ 10:11 PM
i am wondering about peoples expereince with what is “known as” sleep paralysis. the sensations, visitations. these experiences seem similar.
Comment by Anonymous — 26 August 2006 @ 3:41 AM