Comments on: The Age of Chaos http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/ se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yenki Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:39:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1870 Jason Godesky Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:48:24 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1870 That's something <a href="http://anthropik.com/2005/10/exploring-the-tribal-network/" rel="nofollow">Steve just touched on</a>. That’s something Steve just touched on.

]]> By: Mad Max Jr http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1866 Mad Max Jr Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:14:10 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1866 I'm a big believer in communities creating their own localized currencies. At first they run in parallel with the Fed's money and then eventually replace it after collapse. Anyone interested in this should do a search on "local currency". I’m a big believer in communities creating their own localized currencies. At first they run in parallel with the Fed’s money and then eventually replace it after collapse.

Anyone interested in this should do a search on “local currency”.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1865 Jason Godesky Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:23:10 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1865 Amen, brutha. And even that's still the tip of the iceberg.... Amen, brutha.

And even that’s still the tip of the iceberg….

]]> By: Mad Max Jr http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1864 Mad Max Jr Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:18:41 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1864 Nevermind Peak Oil. The entire system is rotten to the core. These are each one hour long but worth watching or at least listening to while multitasking. http://1984videos.com/ http://1984videos.com/money/Money_Masters_Tape1_International_Banking_Cartel.wmv http://1984videos.com/money/Money_Masters_Tape2_International_Banking_Cartel.wmv http://1984videos.com/money/Corporations_Are_Legal_Psychopaths__The_Corporation_P1.mpg http://1984videos.com/money/Corporations_Are_Legal_Psychopaths__The_Corporation_P2.mpg Nevermind Peak Oil. The entire system is rotten to the core.

These are each one hour long but worth watching or at least listening to while multitasking.

http://1984videos.com/

http://1984videos.com/money/Money_Masters_Tape1_International_Banking_Cartel.wmv

http://1984videos.com/money/Money_Masters_Tape2_International_Banking_Cartel.wmv

http://1984videos.com/money/Corporations_Are_Legal_Psychopaths__The_Corporation_P1.mpg

http://1984videos.com/money/Corporations_Are_Legal_Psychopaths__The_Corporation_P2.mpg

]]> By: Matt http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1847 Matt Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:35:31 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1847 Hello all, Great discussion. I'm a die-off reader, Heinberg, Kunstler, Simmons, etc... reader. Found this via Oil Drum. The thing about being a misanthrope and yearning for a collapse is resonant, but not the whole picture. Yes, I'll own up to the emptiness of suburbia. I live there. I'm a son of the place. Like Jason, I had a dream of it working and I believed in it. I'm a carpenter, I love craftsman style bungalows and all the wonderful skills that go into building houses, cabinets, furniture etc... I'm also a musician. I play guitar (who doesn't) and fiddle. The music is my main love, along with my family. I have 2 kids, I love my wife, love my job, people love me, etc... I'm normal, creative, smart, educated. I also can see that my world is built on sand. All of the practical skills that I have--and I'm known as one of those "guys" who can fix anything, build stuff, a suburban hero in the workshop--all my skills are predicated on power, oil, gas, transport, freedom of time from not having to create food, plastics, metallurgy, duct tape, epoxy, and a thousand thousand other things that will not be in 15 years or so. I'll add one other brick to the decline scenario. It seems to me in this moment that the globe is going to be strangled in a sequence of sorts that will involve poorer countries slipping over an economic threshhold that makes it impossible to import oil/gas. The poorer countries are already much closer than the rich countries to a post-oil way of living, though population densities are high and the cities like Lagos and Mexico City are just as oil dependent as any American city. This will be coupled by many poorer countries' inability to refine products themselves. This "sequential demand destruction" will provide miniscule uptics in the inevitable decline for the richer countries. The WTO mindset will do nothing to restrain this as it will be perceived as the market doing its thing. This trend will march around the globe, nation by nation, until there are only the mega-militaries and the mega-suppliers left standing. This has already started in Africa, Cuba, Haiti. Basically, the White people--I'm white, btw, not particularly proud of that--will see to it that the dark skinned races will explore and experience post peak first. We'll get to watch it all on CNN Hello all,
Great discussion. I’m a die-off reader, Heinberg, Kunstler, Simmons, etc… reader. Found this via Oil Drum. The thing about being a misanthrope and yearning for a collapse is resonant, but not the whole picture. Yes, I’ll own up to the emptiness of suburbia. I live there. I’m a son of the place. Like Jason, I had a dream of it working and I believed in it. I’m a carpenter, I love craftsman style bungalows and all the wonderful skills that go into building houses, cabinets, furniture etc… I’m also a musician. I play guitar (who doesn’t) and fiddle. The music is my main love, along with my family. I have 2 kids, I love my wife, love my job, people love me, etc… I’m normal, creative, smart, educated.
I also can see that my world is built on sand. All of the practical skills that I have–and I’m known as one of those “guys” who can fix anything, build stuff, a suburban hero in the workshop–all my skills are predicated on power, oil, gas, transport, freedom of time from not having to create food, plastics, metallurgy, duct tape, epoxy, and a thousand thousand other things that will not be in 15 years or so.
I’ll add one other brick to the decline scenario. It seems to me in this moment that the globe is going to be strangled in a sequence of sorts that will involve poorer countries slipping over an economic threshhold that makes it impossible to import oil/gas. The poorer countries are already much closer than the rich countries to a post-oil way of living, though population densities are high and the cities like Lagos and Mexico City are just as oil dependent as any American city. This will be coupled by many poorer countries’ inability to refine products themselves. This “sequential demand destruction” will provide miniscule uptics in the inevitable decline for the richer countries. The WTO mindset will do nothing to restrain this as it will be perceived as the market doing its thing. This trend will march around the globe, nation by nation, until there are only the mega-militaries and the mega-suppliers left standing. This has already started in Africa, Cuba, Haiti. Basically, the White people–I’m white, btw, not particularly proud of that–will see to it that the dark skinned races will explore and experience post peak first. We’ll get to watch it all on CNN

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1839 Jason Godesky Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:04:46 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1839 Doesn't take much time to be brutally honest with myself on this one, but only because I spent years tormenting myself over it. Once the time's put in to get the answer, you have that answer forevermore. The answer is: no. I am a white male suburbanite. I did well in school, I even had girls. I am an elite among elites. I've been offered positions on boards of directors. Not only was I privelaged by the system, I <em>believed</em> in the system. Learning the cruelty of that system was painful for me. Learning what I was a part of--<em>that</em> is what I didn't want to know. That's what I shielded myself against. This ... this is what broke into my mind, without me wanting it there. This is what robbed me of everything I had. This was the unwelcome revelation that transformed me forever. Can't we at least have our Little House on the Praire? No--that was stripped away from me, as well. Feudalism? No--that was stripped away from me as well. It didn't stop until I reached the Stone Age--the only truly sustainable level of technology there is. So, I would say no .... because it wasn't something I <em>wanted</em> to believe. It was, in fact, the very opposite of everything I wanted to believe. But I believed it anyway, because the evidence was too overwhelming to deny. Doesn’t take much time to be brutally honest with myself on this one, but only because I spent years tormenting myself over it. Once the time’s put in to get the answer, you have that answer forevermore.

The answer is: no.

I am a white male suburbanite. I did well in school, I even had girls. I am an elite among elites. I’ve been offered positions on boards of directors. Not only was I privelaged by the system, I believed in the system.

Learning the cruelty of that system was painful for me. Learning what I was a part of–that is what I didn’t want to know. That’s what I shielded myself against. This … this is what broke into my mind, without me wanting it there. This is what robbed me of everything I had. This was the unwelcome revelation that transformed me forever.

Can’t we at least have our Little House on the Praire? No–that was stripped away from me, as well.

Feudalism? No–that was stripped away from me as well.

It didn’t stop until I reached the Stone Age–the only truly sustainable level of technology there is.

So, I would say no …. because it wasn’t something I wanted to believe. It was, in fact, the very opposite of everything I wanted to believe. But I believed it anyway, because the evidence was too overwhelming to deny.

]]> By: Mad Max Jr http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1838 Mad Max Jr Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:56:44 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1838 Let me put this idea forth to you all. Take your time before answering so that you may have a chance to be brutally honest with yourselves. How much of this collapse fantasizing is no more than wishful thinking on your parts because you're an outsider or simply unhappy with capitalism? I'm an outsider. I have moved around a great deal over the decades through several countries on two continents. Being the perpetual outsider, I have this deep longing for some cataclymic event which will drive people together and create a genuine bond between us. As a result, I have always liked movies/novels about events which throw people together into true enduring friendships. (Think Million Dollar Baby as an example. Basically all war movies are about this type of bonding as well.) I must confess to lulling myself to sleep almost every night of my teens with a fantasy about waking up the next morning to discover that everyone on earth was gone--except for myself and whatever girl I happened to have a crush on at the time. Although in business, I'm also disillusioned by capitalism. So much time and energy has to be devoted to pointless competition. It's a game wherein maybe 1% of the population has the personality profile necessary to succeed. The other 99% are simply not greedy or hyper-competitive enough to succeed at it. So, I ask: are we all similar creatures sharing a circle-jerk about the demise of a culture we loathe and a fantasy about having the opportunity to live as the Noble Savage? Are our filters screening out all the evidence that suggests civilization will slow a bit and, at worst, digress back to a Little House on the Paririe scenario--but with the "Internets" still intact. Let me put this idea forth to you all. Take your time before answering so that you may have a chance to be brutally honest with yourselves.

How much of this collapse fantasizing is no more than wishful thinking on your parts because you’re an outsider or simply unhappy with capitalism?

I’m an outsider. I have moved around a great deal over the decades through several countries on two continents. Being the perpetual outsider, I have this deep longing for some cataclymic event which will drive people together and create a genuine bond between us. As a result, I have always liked movies/novels about events which throw people together into true enduring friendships. (Think Million Dollar Baby as an example. Basically all war movies are about this type of bonding as well.)

I must confess to lulling myself to sleep almost every night of my teens with a fantasy about waking up the next morning to discover that everyone on earth was gone–except for myself and whatever girl I happened to have a crush on at the time.

Although in business, I’m also disillusioned by capitalism. So much time and energy has to be devoted to pointless competition. It’s a game wherein maybe 1% of the population has the personality profile necessary to succeed. The other 99% are simply not greedy or hyper-competitive enough to succeed at it.

So, I ask: are we all similar creatures sharing a circle-jerk about the demise of a culture we loathe and a fantasy about having the opportunity to live as the Noble Savage?

Are our filters screening out all the evidence that suggests civilization will slow a bit and, at worst, digress back to a Little House on the Paririe scenario–but with the “Internets” still intact.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1835 Jason Godesky Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:25:27 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1835 I usually just go with "gardening." Sometimes the technical details of the difference between agriculture and horticulture leaves people's heads spinning and they ask, "Then what's the difference?" And I say, "Well, you don't consider farming and gardening the same thing, do you?" I usually just go with “gardening.” Sometimes the technical details of the difference between agriculture and horticulture leaves people’s heads spinning and they ask, “Then what’s the difference?” And I say, “Well, you don’t consider farming and gardening the same thing, do you?”

]]> By: Jeff http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1834 Jeff Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:24:59 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1834 Good point... what's the verb for horticulture? Foster? Confusing terminology is confusing the message, so maybe it should be "foster a sustaining environment"? I've normally said "farm according to permaculture principles," but I think that is mixing it up too much... One of Bill Mollison's rules of permaculture is "everything farms." Maybe the guidance for horticulture--to prevent it from becoming a surplus-creating engine--should be "everyone fosters." I think that this goes back to the concepts of a "new morality" guiding the future..if everyone was morally obligated to produce their own food, and then specialize in any other way that they wanted, the foundation would be in place for a high-standard-of-living society that is also egalitarian, peaceful, etc. I think that in the future there will be places--perhaps large parts--of the Earth that will again be able to support surplus-creating agriculture. One of our challenges will be to keep these regions voluntarily in the horticultural, non-surplus mode. That may be the deciding factor between freedom and feudalism. Good point… what’s the verb for horticulture? Foster? Confusing terminology is confusing the message, so maybe it should be “foster a sustaining environment”? I’ve normally said “farm according to permaculture principles,” but I think that is mixing it up too much…

One of Bill Mollison’s rules of permaculture is “everything farms.” Maybe the guidance for horticulture–to prevent it from becoming a surplus-creating engine–should be “everyone fosters.” I think that this goes back to the concepts of a “new morality” guiding the future..if everyone was morally obligated to produce their own food, and then specialize in any other way that they wanted, the foundation would be in place for a high-standard-of-living society that is also egalitarian, peaceful, etc.

I think that in the future there will be places–perhaps large parts–of the Earth that will again be able to support surplus-creating agriculture. One of our challenges will be to keep these regions voluntarily in the horticultural, non-surplus mode. That may be the deciding factor between freedom and feudalism.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1831 Jason Godesky Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:15:35 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2005/10/the-age-of-chaos/#comment-1831 Well, horticulture/permaculture and agriculture are very different things. Permaculture will still be viable. Agriculture ... I'm not so sure. Hard to farm a desert. Well, horticulture/permaculture and agriculture are very different things. Permaculture will still be viable. Agriculture … I’m not so sure. Hard to farm a desert.

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