I have problems hearing the podcast. Do you have any transcripts? (computer system not my hearing)
I think permaculture should work for me, in a relatively small acreage compared to population density in my country, with more success than hunting and foraging around here.
I can not make choices for 6 billion people.
Attaching etics to anything may not work in many cases, but can you bet that disregarding them is bettter?
Is our vision that shapes the way we live or the other way?

best wishes,
cezar

As for ethics, when given a means of producing food with an ethic attached, people have a way of stripping any non-essential ethics from the system and continuing to act as unethically as they can while still making the system work, because societies are only as good as their worst people. If only one person in a whole tribe is a murderer, well, you’ve still got a murder in your tribe, don’t you?

The only obstacles for permaculture to feed the world, according to above quote from Holmgren, are just two:

- it requires more people involved into it than there currently are in agriculture.

- so many people must live within the middle of their fields some sort of infrastructure, other than existing one, is needed.

It also points that permaculture can not support so many people with the harmfull and wastefull way of living the live now.

———

What attracts me towards permaculture is its strong base of positive ethics upon which it is build upon:

- dont push your ambition against world
- search, understand and apply natural balances where you live.
- respect all living creatures.
- sufficient is enough

I think (yup this is my utopian thinking) it might have the potential to drive civilisation towards the oposite of this yerarchical, harmful, totalitarian system.

regards,
cezar

“If an alternative is desired I would consider a pastoralist model (ranching) to be more compatible with a wild environment than hort/agriculture and also to be more accessible than foraging.”

The current ‘trend’ in permaculture relies heavily on forest gardens and plant guilds….ie horticulture. However, at its core, permaculture is a far more comprehensive design system. Having a bountiful forest garden close to the house(zone 1), with interspersed vegetables, fruit, and nuts, makes great sense, but there’s also a place for pasture and woodlots (zones 3 and 4), which can round out a communities’ protein needs with proper management.

Cheers

Rich

Scott

Scott

yes!

and, “Are trains Evil, too? Ships? Planes?”

sometimes, sometimes, and probably most of the time (which is a shame, because clouds are REALLY amazing in a whole new way when you look at them from the top-side.)

you know, i lived for a few years in Madison WI in the early 90’s, and there was a clear heirarchy there of perceived Evil in certain communities when it came to getting around town: i watched the bike people scoff at the bus people, and the walking people, i suspect, felt secretly superior to the bike riders. i guess sometimes it’s more about feeling “right” than it is about anything else? maybe i need a car that runs on depressing realizations?

better to drive the Pure Evil-Fueled Evil Car, and just revel honestly in how evil you are!

That might be ok until we cross: peak happy-thoughts

I have seen the peak.