Comments on: The Modern Hunter-Gatherer http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/ se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yenki Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:51:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8669 Jason Godesky Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:19:50 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8669 Exactly what I was suggesting. Exactly what I was suggesting.

]]> By: scruff http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8667 scruff Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:36:25 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8667 Many or most people growing up in civilization are too far removed from the process of procuring their own food to have developed a mature or "healthy" perspective on hunting/killing. For anyone beginning a hunting lifestyle as Pollan did, and I will at some point, surely such emotional reactions are to be expected. Elation, guilt, confusion, perhaps even shame or fetishism among those who have a really hard time adjusting. Many or most people growing up in civilization are too far removed from the process of procuring their own food to have developed a mature or “healthy” perspective on hunting/killing. For anyone beginning a hunting lifestyle as Pollan did, and I will at some point, surely such emotional reactions are to be expected. Elation, guilt, confusion, perhaps even shame or fetishism among those who have a really hard time adjusting.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8630 Jason Godesky Wed, 05 Apr 2006 01:16:45 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8630 The kill is not the fulfillment of the hunting drive, the way orgasm is the fulfillment of the sex drive. <em>Eating</em> is. In fact, the "joy of the kill" is something hard to find among foragers. If anything, they usually feel rather ambivalent about the kill itself. Now, eating, that's another story entirely. The kill is not the fulfillment of the hunting drive, the way orgasm is the fulfillment of the sex drive. Eating is. In fact, the “joy of the kill” is something hard to find among foragers. If anything, they usually feel rather ambivalent about the kill itself. Now, eating, that’s another story entirely.

]]> By: Paula http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8625 Paula Wed, 05 Apr 2006 00:30:20 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8625 Yes agricultural societies, that was was trying to say. Once the proper place of the hunting drive no longer exists, that drive has to be channeled into something. I'm not sure I understand how you draw a distinction between a hunting drive and the joy of the kill. That seems like drawing a distinction between sex drive and the joy of hte orgasm. What's the difference? Yes agricultural societies, that was was trying to say. Once the proper place of the hunting drive no longer exists, that drive has to be channeled into something.

I’m not sure I understand how you draw a distinction between a hunting drive and the joy of the kill. That seems like drawing a distinction between sex drive and the joy of hte orgasm. What’s the difference?

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8594 Jason Godesky Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:00:05 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8594 Animal sacrifices are only made by agricultural societies with domesticated animals. Human sacrifice is a rare subset of that. I don't think video games or movies have much to do with any kind of bloodlust, but I do agree that there is a thrill to seeing what you're really made of--the way you only can in the intensity of physical engagement. Or, as Tyler Durden put it, "How much can you really know about yourself if you've never been in a fight?" That said, hunting drive, absolutely. But I don't think a hunting drive necessarily translates directly into bloodlust. I'm noting that our examples are almost all from civilized peoples, and that hunter-gatherer examples are so far lacking. Animal sacrifices are only made by agricultural societies with domesticated animals. Human sacrifice is a rare subset of that. I don’t think video games or movies have much to do with any kind of bloodlust, but I do agree that there is a thrill to seeing what you’re really made of–the way you only can in the intensity of physical engagement. Or, as Tyler Durden put it, “How much can you really know about yourself if you’ve never been in a fight?”

That said, hunting drive, absolutely. But I don’t think a hunting drive necessarily translates directly into bloodlust. I’m noting that our examples are almost all from civilized peoples, and that hunter-gatherer examples are so far lacking.

]]> By: Paula http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8593 Paula Tue, 04 Apr 2006 15:55:35 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8593 I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the joy of the kill as something other than that. Every culture has institutionalized the thrill of the kill in some way, whether through animal sacrifice, which restores a spiritual dimension to the everyday chore of slaughtering farm animals, or in human sacrifice, which would serve to intensify the thrill enough to last a longer period of time, or through elaborate rituals in which no animal or person is actually killed but that allows the thrill of the kill to express itself all the same. In our own culture we see it in video games, movies, and other media. It makes sense to me that something like a "hunting drive" would evolve among a hunting-gathering species like ours. A "hunting drive" would evolve in strength in inverse proportion to the success rate of hunting -- just like our sex drive evolved in inverse proportion to successful birth rates. The lower the chance of success, the stronger the drive, in order to increase the success rate. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the joy of the kill as something other than that. Every culture has institutionalized the thrill of the kill in some way, whether through animal sacrifice, which restores a spiritual dimension to the everyday chore of slaughtering farm animals, or in human sacrifice, which would serve to intensify the thrill enough to last a longer period of time, or through elaborate rituals in which no animal or person is actually killed but that allows the thrill of the kill to express itself all the same. In our own culture we see it in video games, movies, and other media.

It makes sense to me that something like a “hunting drive” would evolve among a hunting-gathering species like ours. A “hunting drive” would evolve in strength in inverse proportion to the success rate of hunting — just like our sex drive evolved in inverse proportion to successful birth rates. The lower the chance of success, the stronger the drive, in order to increase the success rate.

]]> By: Survival Acres http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8362 Survival Acres Thu, 30 Mar 2006 02:44:28 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8362 I had to laugh after reading the Pollan pig story. There isn't any need to over-intellectualize the process of hunting and killing meat for food. I can understand the revulsion, I still feel it after decades of hunting. But to attempt to explain it down to the nth nuance of disgusting detail, what was the point? This story didn't make Pollan a hunter or truly knowledgable about what hunting really is. He tries very hard to convey this new found knowledge but winds up short. I don't blame him, his lack is simply experience, not words (obviously). Hunting isn't the real issue here anyway. The real issue is the disconnect from man and nature, the world he lives in and the world that sustains him. The hunting experience can give you a glimpse of that real world, but in itself is incomplete like the article. In the end, Polland is found at a <i>dinner party</i> of all things. Did he not learn <i>anything</i>? I think not. I had to laugh after reading the Pollan pig story. There isn’t any need to over-intellectualize the process of hunting and killing meat for food.

I can understand the revulsion, I still feel it after decades of hunting. But to attempt to explain it down to the nth nuance of disgusting detail, what was the point? This story didn’t make Pollan a hunter or truly knowledgable about what hunting really is. He tries very hard to convey this new found knowledge but winds up short. I don’t blame him, his lack is simply experience, not words (obviously).

Hunting isn’t the real issue here anyway. The real issue is the disconnect from man and nature, the world he lives in and the world that sustains him. The hunting experience can give you a glimpse of that real world, but in itself is incomplete like the article. In the end, Polland is found at a dinner party of all things. Did he not learn anything?

I think not.

]]> By: Rick Larson http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8359 Rick Larson Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:23:46 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8359 To love hunting, and/or the hunters, is to love life. How dare any modern man be so bold to think otherwise. Even in the age of agriculture, hunting has been a necessary ingredient to life for all but the nearest years. In hunting (as opposed to just shooting and killing), you gain a quality of respect for the quarry (deer is my favorite). Then having invested much time in it's pursuit, one is committed towards making a clean kill. The skinning and dividing the harvest is the best part of the hunt, as this act, in itself, is a period to pay tribute to the event. Plus, there is no tastier meat than which is frshly ripped from the inner cavity and lightly seared on an open fire! To love hunting, and/or the hunters, is to love life. How dare any modern man be so bold to think otherwise. Even in the age of agriculture, hunting has been a necessary ingredient to life for all but the nearest years.

In hunting (as opposed to just shooting and killing), you gain a quality of respect for the quarry (deer is my favorite). Then having invested much time in it’s pursuit, one is committed towards making a clean kill. The skinning and dividing the harvest is the best part of the hunt, as this act, in itself, is a period to pay tribute to the event.

Plus, there is no tastier meat than which is frshly ripped from the inner cavity and lightly seared on an open fire!

]]> By: Chuck http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8354 Chuck Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:52:16 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8354 "the easiest thing for evolution to do would be to form a creature that's neither depressed by nor rejoices in killing. The default state seems to be the optimal one here." Houston, we have a method by which spirituality may have become imprinted in our brains... What if it came about as a way to regulate hunting/grazing while still allowing us the higher intellectual capabilities that have made us so successful? - Chuck “the easiest thing for evolution to do would be to form a creature that’s neither depressed by nor rejoices in killing. The default state seems to be the optimal one here.”

Houston, we have a method by which spirituality may have become imprinted in our brains… What if it came about as a way to regulate hunting/grazing while still allowing us the higher intellectual capabilities that have made us so successful?

- Chuck

]]> By: urban_coyote http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8349 urban_coyote Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:33:10 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/03/the-modern-hunter-gatherer/#comment-8349 Could it be possible that we civilized humans are "neotonous" or whatever that word is that means we are stuck in juvenile form, like how dogs are? Wouldn't a first kill in primitive society be part of growing up? I also wonder if having pets conditions civilized people to view all animals as pets, which prejudices them against hunting. Hunters have real relationships with animals ones that go beyone having a pet or watching the discovery channel. Could it be possible that we civilized humans are “neotonous” or whatever that word is that means we are stuck in juvenile form, like how dogs are?

Wouldn’t a first kill in primitive society be part of growing up?

I also wonder if having pets conditions civilized people to view all animals as pets, which prejudices them against hunting.

Hunters have real relationships with animals ones that go beyone having a pet or watching the discovery channel.

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