Comments on: Water, Water, Everywhere http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/ se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yenki Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:05:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-87487 Jason Godesky Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:29:05 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-87487 <blockquote><p>While it is true that the United States accounts for 17 percent of the global capacity of desalination, this is a figure that includes all forms of desalination. Our factsheet was solely about ocean water desalination. Mr. Leonard misses that on the very next page of the Pacific Institute's report, it shows that the water treated in U.S. desalination plants is different in the rest of the world. The great majority of water we desalinate in the United States is river or brackish water, which uses less energy and is more cost-effective to desalinate. Only 7 percent of the U.S. installed capacity for desalination is seawater.</p> <p>Even this 7 percent figure is misleading. It measures installed capacity, or how much water could be produced through already-built seawater desalination plants -- not the amount of water that is actually produced. So, counted in the figure is one of the largest plants proposed in the United States, the Tampa Bay plant, which, despite the more than $110 million price tag, has never produced drinking water commercially or even reliably. Also included is one of the largest plants built in California, the Santa Barbara, which also has never operated commercially.</p> <p>All this is to say that ocean water desalination is not a technology that has proven to be a viable or reliable alternative in the United States. The $110 to $173 million proposed plant in Marin should be viewed with extreme skepticism. The last thing that San Franciscans need is a boondoggle like the one in Tampa Bay or Santa Barbara.</p> <p>Moreover, the real point of our blog is that, even if the plant works, it will certainly undercut the Marin Water District's first-in-the-nation commitment to reduce global warming pollution by more than tripling the water district's energy use. The water board president has proposed that the desalination plant be powered by solar power or some other combination of renewable energy. While these technologies are worth exploring, their viability for producing the amount of energy needed to produce drinking water form ocean salt water is even less tried than conventional desalination.</p></blockquote> <a href="http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2007/04/19/desalination_2/index.html?source=newsletter" rel="nofollow">"In fact, ocean desalination does not work"</a>

While it is true that the United States accounts for 17 percent of the global capacity of desalination, this is a figure that includes all forms of desalination. Our factsheet was solely about ocean water desalination. Mr. Leonard misses that on the very next page of the Pacific Institute’s report, it shows that the water treated in U.S. desalination plants is different in the rest of the world. The great majority of water we desalinate in the United States is river or brackish water, which uses less energy and is more cost-effective to desalinate. Only 7 percent of the U.S. installed capacity for desalination is seawater.

Even this 7 percent figure is misleading. It measures installed capacity, or how much water could be produced through already-built seawater desalination plants — not the amount of water that is actually produced. So, counted in the figure is one of the largest plants proposed in the United States, the Tampa Bay plant, which, despite the more than $110 million price tag, has never produced drinking water commercially or even reliably. Also included is one of the largest plants built in California, the Santa Barbara, which also has never operated commercially.

All this is to say that ocean water desalination is not a technology that has proven to be a viable or reliable alternative in the United States. The $110 to $173 million proposed plant in Marin should be viewed with extreme skepticism. The last thing that San Franciscans need is a boondoggle like the one in Tampa Bay or Santa Barbara.

Moreover, the real point of our blog is that, even if the plant works, it will certainly undercut the Marin Water District’s first-in-the-nation commitment to reduce global warming pollution by more than tripling the water district’s energy use. The water board president has proposed that the desalination plant be powered by solar power or some other combination of renewable energy. While these technologies are worth exploring, their viability for producing the amount of energy needed to produce drinking water form ocean salt water is even less tried than conventional desalination.

“In fact, ocean desalination does not work”

]]> By: Israel/Lebanon Conflict / Water, Water, Everywhere http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-21206 Israel/Lebanon Conflict / Water, Water, Everywhere Sat, 26 Aug 2006 20:17:32 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-21206 [...] Read the rest of this post [...] […] Read the rest of this post […]

]]> By: Going the Way of the Anasazi (The Anthropik Network) http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-21203 Going the Way of the Anasazi (The Anthropik Network) Sat, 26 Aug 2006 20:01:15 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-21203 [...] As World Water Week comes to a close, this should be a startling reminder that conflicts over water are not simply the concern of Third World or developing countries. Even in the most complex nation-state on the planet, there are water shortages that carry the threat of significant socio-political breakdown. Tensions over water will likely become flashpoints in decades to come, as cities continue to grow beyond the means to support themselves and states begin escalating their feuds against one another. As collapse progresses and more power is given to individual states, we may see the southwest torn apart by civil war as states fight for access to the river: just like the grisly warfare that wiped out the last of the Anasazi. When it is all over, what will remain in the southwest will be whatever that ecology can reasonably sustain. Predicting its precise details would be impossible, but we can guess what it will generally look like, regardless of who wins the intervening wars: it will look like the Hopi, or the Zuni, or the Taos, or the Acoma. [...] […] As World Water Week comes to a close, this should be a startling reminder that conflicts over water are not simply the concern of Third World or developing countries. Even in the most complex nation-state on the planet, there are water shortages that carry the threat of significant socio-political breakdown. Tensions over water will likely become flashpoints in decades to come, as cities continue to grow beyond the means to support themselves and states begin escalating their feuds against one another. As collapse progresses and more power is given to individual states, we may see the southwest torn apart by civil war as states fight for access to the river: just like the grisly warfare that wiped out the last of the Anasazi. When it is all over, what will remain in the southwest will be whatever that ecology can reasonably sustain. Predicting its precise details would be impossible, but we can guess what it will generally look like, regardless of who wins the intervening wars: it will look like the Hopi, or the Zuni, or the Taos, or the Acoma. […]

]]> By: Bubba http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20924 Bubba Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:28:00 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20924 Aye, a wonderful array of ecological conditions are coming to a head in this little old world of ours. Things may go the way of the Cree Prophecy. "Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten." Viva de freshwater! Aye, a wonderful array of ecological conditions are coming to a head in this little old world of ours.

Things may go the way of the Cree Prophecy.
“Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.”

Viva de freshwater!

]]> By: The Hierarchy of Needs (The Anthropik Network) http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20851 The Hierarchy of Needs (The Anthropik Network) Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:26:31 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20851 [...] Civilization, as a whole, must also provide for basic needs: food, water, air, and so forth. As we have seen—particularly, this week, with regards to water—civilization faces major crises in the near future for all of these needs. Unfortunately, most people are helpless without civilization; even those who understand, in theory, how to provide for their basic needs without civilization, are often mentally incapable of making the leap to do so. Much of this has to do with the fact that food, water, air, and other physiological needs are not the only ones that civilization provides us with. It provides us with a sense of safety and security, and it does provide us with a social context of esteem, as difficult as that context can be to navigate. As civilization lurches towards destruction through its inability to provide for our basic needs, we must make sure that the societies we begin to grow to take its place do not neglect our needs. This application of Maslow's hierarchy does not only highlight the crisis of civilization and its loss of legitimacy; it also highlights the needs that our own, neo-tribal societies, must fulfill. Primitive skills can provide for basic, physiological needs, but this is not sufficient in itself. Our societies must also provide for our need for safety and security, belonging, and esteem. In other words, primitive skills are invaluable as a foundation, but they are not sufficient without a culture built on top of them. [...] […] Civilization, as a whole, must also provide for basic needs: food, water, air, and so forth. As we have seen—particularly, this week, with regards to water—civilization faces major crises in the near future for all of these needs. Unfortunately, most people are helpless without civilization; even those who understand, in theory, how to provide for their basic needs without civilization, are often mentally incapable of making the leap to do so. Much of this has to do with the fact that food, water, air, and other physiological needs are not the only ones that civilization provides us with. It provides us with a sense of safety and security, and it does provide us with a social context of esteem, as difficult as that context can be to navigate. As civilization lurches towards destruction through its inability to provide for our basic needs, we must make sure that the societies we begin to grow to take its place do not neglect our needs. This application of Maslow’s hierarchy does not only highlight the crisis of civilization and its loss of legitimacy; it also highlights the needs that our own, neo-tribal societies, must fulfill. Primitive skills can provide for basic, physiological needs, but this is not sufficient in itself. Our societies must also provide for our need for safety and security, belonging, and esteem. In other words, primitive skills are invaluable as a foundation, but they are not sufficient without a culture built on top of them. […]

]]> By: Mike Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20745 Mike Godesky Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:43:20 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20745 <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/~ina/infographics/water.html" rel="nofollow"><img width="400" src="http://www.princeton.edu/~ina/images/infographics/water_big.jpg"/></a>

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20729 Jason Godesky Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:56:50 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20729 I'm lucky in that the ANF is well-watered, and doesn't seem to be in any danger of drying up, or flooding out. Most of the planet is not so lucky. Flood is shaping up to be as big a problem as drought: the water comes too quickly to be of any use for drinking, but instead washes everything away: buildings, people, and most important of all in the long term, top soil. I’m lucky in that the ANF is well-watered, and doesn’t seem to be in any danger of drying up, or flooding out. Most of the planet is not so lucky. Flood is shaping up to be as big a problem as drought: the water comes too quickly to be of any use for drinking, but instead washes everything away: buildings, people, and most important of all in the long term, top soil.

]]> By: janene http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20728 janene Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:41:34 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20728 Hey -- But you ignored the other, perhaps even more important issue... draw down of aquifers. Not only can we not drill wells as easily, but I would think that 'full' aquifers probably play a huge role in natural spring formation. Besides, for every part of the planet that is receiving less rainfall, another is receiving more -- places like mine and yours ;-) Janene Hey –

But you ignored the other, perhaps even more important issue… draw down of aquifers. Not only can we not drill wells as easily, but I would think that ‘full’ aquifers probably play a huge role in natural spring formation.

Besides, for every part of the planet that is receiving less rainfall, another is receiving more — places like mine and yours ;-)

Janene

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20717 Jason Godesky Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:33:43 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20717 There's a decreasing water supply from pollution, and an increasing demand from the growing population, but I'd say what puts this into true crisis territory is primarily global warming: we've got some of the biggest freshwater lakes on the planet drying up, the disappearance of glaciers that provide a huge percentage of our drinking water, and just incredible droughts. I think these things are making problems like pollution pale in comparison. There’s a decreasing water supply from pollution, and an increasing demand from the growing population, but I’d say what puts this into true crisis territory is primarily global warming: we’ve got some of the biggest freshwater lakes on the planet drying up, the disappearance of glaciers that provide a huge percentage of our drinking water, and just incredible droughts. I think these things are making problems like pollution pale in comparison.

]]> By: janene http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20715 janene Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:27:13 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/08/water-water-everywhere/#comment-20715 Hey -- I don't know if I would say that the water shortages are <i>primarily</i> a result of global warming. Certainly that is a factor, but I think the primary cause<i>s</i> are pollution and 'fossil water' draw down. Janene Hey –

I don’t know if I would say that the water shortages are primarily a result of global warming. Certainly that is a factor, but I think the primary causes are pollution and ‘fossil water’ draw down.

Janene

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