Oriental Myths
by Jason GodeskyIn the West, we have often nursed a romantic fascination with all things “Oriental.” We imagine the civlizations of the East to be older and wiser than our own. We mythologize them as paragons of ecological sustainability and grace. Indeed, there is as much to admire in Eastern cultures as in Western. Taoism can only be described as “ecological” in the emphasis it places on balanced forces, while Buddhism has as much to offer spiritually in its own way as Western Gnosticism. However, we have a tendency to take this much too far, and to gloss over the fact that these are still civilizations, and still bound by the same dynamics of constant growth as any Western civilization.
The Humanure Handbook, concerned with the recycling of human waste in compost, sees in China a model of sustainable cultivation.
It’s clear to me that Asians have been more advanced than the western world in this regard. And they should be, since they’ve been working on developing sustainable agriculture for four thousand years on the same land. For four thousand years those people have worked the same land with little or no chemical fertilizers and, in many cases, have produced greater crop yields than western farmers, who are quickly destroying the soils of their own countries through depletion and erosion.1
Of course, four thousand years is hardly a grand achievement on evolutionary scales of time, but the basis for the Handbook’s praise is based on a deep misunderstanding of basic energy economics.
A fact largely ignored by people in western agriculture is that agricultural land must produce a greater output over time. The human population is constantly increasing; available agricultural land is not.2
What are humans made up of, if not food? The Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy creates trophic levels, because at each level, organisms absorb a certain amount of energy, and use a certain amount of energy for their own growth and life, such that when they are consumed by another organism, that organism is necessarily recieving less energy than the original organism did. So grass takes in a certain amount of energy from the sun, and uses some of that to grow, and some of that energy is still there for the cow to consume. The cow uses some of that energy to live before it is killed and eaten by a wolf. The wolf is at a higher trophic level: he’s more removed from the primary energy source (the sun), and thus recieves only a small fraction of the total solar energy involved in feeding all the grass that fed the cow that fed him. This relates to “humanure” as a fairly obvious and straightforward reason why it cannot make a system sustainable. While it can, and does, lighten the energy load of a human population (sometimes quite significantly), if humans were returning 100% of the energy they consumed, that would necessarily mean they were not keeping any of that energy for their own growth or maintenance—in other words, they’d all be starving. Humanure returns a fraction of the energy humans take from a given piece of land, but this doesn’t make it sustainable: it slows unsustainability, but it does not itself reverse it.
Just as important here is the idea that human population grows as an independent variable. We already know this is a common, but untrue, assumption. Human population grows as a function of food supply, at the most basic level simply because humans are made of food.
Despite its praise, The Humanure Handbook specifically discourages the “night soil” technique used in China. Even there, it was used primarily due to lack of animal manure.
The second way to deal with human excrement is to apply it raw to agricultural land. This is popular in Asia where “night soil,” or raw human excrement, is spread on fields. Although this keeps the soil enriched, it also acts as a vector, or route of transmission, for disease organisms. In the words of Dr. J. W. Scharff, former chief health officer in Singapore, “Though the vegetables thrive, the practice of putting human [manure] directly on the soil is dangerous to health. The heavy toll of sickness and death from various enteric diseases in China is well-known.” The World Health Organization adds, “Night soil is sometimes used as a fertilizer, in which case it presents great hazards by promoting the transmission of food-borne enteric [intestinal] disease, and hookworm.”3
The deeper question is, is Chinese agriculture as sustainable as The Humanure Handbook claims? We can see that the use of “night soil” will certainly slow an unsustainable cultivation practice (at the expense of human health), but does it make the process sustainable, or merely slow down an unsustainable process?
The incredible photography of Feng Jiang show what a beautiful land China can be—and, at the same time, the enormous devastation that Chinese civilization has visited upon it. The first agriculture in China was actually wheat from the Middle East in northern China; later, southern China developed rice agriculture. These two crops share a good deal in common with each other, but also several important differences.
Corn, rice, and wheat are especially adapted to catastrophe. It is their niche. In the natural scheme of things, a catastrophe would create a blank slate, bare soil, that was good for them. Then, under normal circumstances, succession would quickly close that niche. The annuals would colonize. Their roots would stabilize the soil, accumulate organic matter, provide cover. Eventually the catastrophic niche would close. Farming is the process of ripping that niche open again and again. It is an annual artificial catastrophe, and it requires the equivalent of three or four tons of TNT per acre for a modern American farm. Iowa’s fields require the energy of 4,000 Nagasaki bombs every year.4
It is telling that after last year’s tsunami, rice yields increased dramatically.
Farming’s relationship to floodplains was even more pronounced in Asia with the domestication of rice, a form of agriculture that never quite lost its close tie to annual floods. The anthropologist Charles Higham writes, “The accumulated archaeological evidence is unanimous in supporting low-lying aquatic habitat as the most likely location for the transition to rice cultivation.” (Manning, 2005)
Rice agriculture is an incredibly labor-intensive form of farming. First, the rice paddy is flooded, then each rice plant must be planted by hand. Massive terracing projects obliterated whole mountain ranges, turning them into fields for rice farming. The flooding of rice paddies would create vast, flooded plains cut into plots and squares by narrow dry banks. Later in the season, the water would be drained for harvest. This pattern of flooding has apparently contributed to global warming for some time, supporting Ruddiman’s Early Anthropocene Hypothesis. When Chinese farmers began draining their fields earlier in the season to increase yield and reduce water costs in the 1980s, a NASA-funded study found a significant drop in methane emissions over the ensuing 20-year period.5
The most obvious toll of China’s form of agriculture has been its forests. Forested mountains were cut into terraces; forests in the valleys were cut down to flood rice paddies. In prehistory, some 43% of modern China was forested. In 1948, prior to the introduction of modern agricultural techniques, that number was reduced to just 9.1%.6
The slope below the Great Wall was cut with gullies, some of which were fifty feet deep. As far as the eye could see were gullies, gullies, gullies-a gashed and gutted countryside. The little stream that once ran past the city was now a wide waste of coarse sand and gravels which the hillside gullies were bringing down faster than the little stream had been able to carry them away. Hence, the whole valley, once good farmland, had become a desert of sand and gravel, alternately wet and dry, always fruitless. It was even more worthless than the hills. Its sole harvest now is dust; picked up by the bitter winds of winter that rips across its dry surface in this land of rainy summers and dry winters. (Smith, 1977)
The elimination of China’s forests have produced cascading ecological effects, including extinction, erosion, and flooding.
At one time nearly half of China was forested. The famous agricultural scholar, Georg Borgstrom estimates that 670 million acres of China were once covered. This forest, with its complex ecosystem was gone almost before written history. There is no doubt that it contained many species that became extinct and of which we will never know. One major consequence of the denudation of the vegetation of China is that its major rivers now carry more silt than any other river system in the world and the stories of the floods in China are as old as the Chinese empire. (Kötke, 1993)
This is not a recent consequence of modern techniques, either, but an ongoing effect of Chinese agriculture from its very beginnings.
During the former Empire, the forest cover was progressively destroyed and steps were rarely taken to restore it. Uplands were usually denuded. It is considered that, in historical times, 300 million hectares - 30 percent of the land area - were deforested. As shown later, continually increasing erosion still ravages over half of these lands today, denuding 160 million hectares.7
The cradle of Chinese civilization has always been the Yellow River. During the last ice age, a whole plateau of loess—rich, yellowish soil—was deposited by glaciers in the middle of the Yellow River valley, but agriculture and deforestation has led to such prodigous erosion that it turns the river yellow—hence the name.
“Whoever controls the Yellow River controls China,” said the Great Yu, who is credited with the first “taming” of the river around 2200 BC. Well he might: according to legend, his reward was to be made Emperor.
The Yellow River flows across a great blanket of loess, deposited by winds that blew out of the Siberian tundra during the Ice Age. The river erodes the loess easily, carrying along sixty times the sediment load of the Mississippi, until it reaches the plains of North China, still 1400 river km from the sea. The river carries more sediment than any other major river in the world when it reaches the North China Plain. Then the sediment is deposited as fine silt, building up the river bed until it is high above the surrounding plains. In flood times the river may burst its banks, turning the plain into a flood plain, and unable to return to its breached course as the flood recedes. The Yellow River now finds a new way to the sea, and the cycle begins again.
The changes of course have been spectacular, and the river mouth has sometimes changed catastrophically by hundreds of kilometers. It has had 26 major changes in course in the past 2000 years. The river is so treacherous that there was no permanent bridge across it until 1905.8
Its wild course changes and immense erosion has made the Yellow River itself unsustainable.9 To the north, agriculture and overgrazing has expanded the desert by 300km over the past 3,000 years.10
Two thousand years ago, the ancient Chinese called the Taklamakan desert the Moving Sands. And their secrets lie buried in its depths—around 300 ancient cities swallowed by this sea of sand.11
This has only intensified in more recent years, creating a violent dust bowl that is consuming China’s arable land and ultimately threatens Beijing itself.12, 13, 14, 15
Violent sandstorms from China’s expanding deserts have been battering Chinese cities, and their mustard-colored dust has begun reaching South Korea, Japan, and the west coast of North America.
“People dusting off their cars in California or Calgary often don’t realize the sand has come all the way from China,” said Lester Brown, president of the Earth Policy Institute in Washington, D.C., who was in Beijing recently. “There is a dustbowl developing in China that represents the largest conversion of productive land to desert of any place in the world … and it’s affecting the world.”16
Modern intensification of this crisis should not mislead us into thinking this is a recent problem for China. Though modern developments have greatly exacerbated the situation, as we have seen, these developments are not radical changes, but intensifications of existing trends. Most of China’s deforestation had already taken place before the end of the Ch’ing dynasty; the erosion of loess had already been so severe, for so long, as to give the Yellow River its name.
China’s soil problems start with being one of the world’s countries most severely damaged by erosion, now affecting 19% of its land area and resulting in soil loss at 5 billion tons per year. Erosion is especially devastating on the Loess Plateau (the middle stretch of the Yellow River, about 70% of the plateau eroded), and increasingly on the Yangtze River, whose sediment discharge from erosion exceeds the confined discharges of the Nile and Amazon, the world’s two longest rivers. By filling up China’s rivers (as well as its reservoirs and lakes), sediment has shortened China’s navigable river channels by 50% and restricted the size of ships that can use them. Soil quality and fertility as well as soil quantity has declined, partly because of long-term fertilizer use plus pesticide-related drastic declined in soil-renewing earthworms, thereby causing a 50% decrease in the area of cropland considered to be of high quality. Salinization … has affected 9% of China’s lands, mainly due to poor design and management of irrigation systems in dry areas. … Desertification, due to overgrazing and land reclamation for agriculture, has affected more than one-quarter of China, destroying about 15% of North China’s area remaining for agriculture and pastoralism within the last decade. (Diamond, 2005)
These problems have afflicted Chinese agriculture since its beginning, just like similar problems with wheat agriculture. However, where the Middle Eastern neolithic spread into Europe and eventually reached its limits against the Atlantic, stagnating in the Middle Ages before finally exploiting the New World, China has waxed and waned within a fairly set geographical region. How has China been able to deal with the ecological toll of agriculture without expansion?
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| Maps from Minneapolis Institute of Arts |
For the last several thousand years, as the famine center has shifted around the world, waxed and waned, China has maintained a fairly steady course of starvation. Researchers have compiled documentary evidence of 1,828 famines in China between 2019 B.C. and A.D. 1911. They were concentrated in a famine belt between the Yellow and Yangtze rivers, which is to say that China’s hunger was concentrated in the same area as its agriculture. This history can be read in the numbers, but also in the language.
During China’s most recent famine, people began using an expression that means “swapping children, making food.” Hungry peasants traded children to avoid killing and eating their own. The practice was widespread. The specific phrase for this is about 2,200 years old and meant exactly then what it does now. As the Han Dynasty was founded, in 200 B.C., a single famine killed about half of China’s population. The emperor Gao Zu issued an edict permitting people to eat or sell their children as meat, thus lending legal sanction to a long-established practice. A written report from 2,600 years ago notes: “In the city, we are exchanging our children and eating them, and splitting up their bones for fuel.” (Manning, 2005)
Where Europeans expanded to keep their civilization going, China incorporated enormous mortality and starvation as a basic fact of life. This, like the use of “night soil,” slowed the inevitable, yet even so, China exhibits the same escalating sine curve of increasing complexity. To the right, you will see successive maps of China under various historical dynasties. There is a distinct wax and wane, but more importantly, each crest and trough is still larger than the last, so what we see is not a sine wave at all, but an unsteady, stop-and-go escalation.
Though not a subject of particular scrutiny in his work, Tainter still provides a basic account of China’s growth in terms of complexity and its diminishing marginal returns.
Chinese political thought (seconded to a great extent by current historical research) has long seen conflict and mismanagement as the sources of dynastic collapse (i.e., since at leastthe Warring States period and the Confucian era). All great dynasties began with initial prosperity and peace, as land was brought back into production. Palaces, roads, canals, and walls would be built, and costly defensive lines maintained. But as imperial relatives, nobility, and the bureaucracy increased in numbers and grew used to luxury, more resources were allocated to the ruling class, and less to administration. Because of increased expenditures, and often a slightly declining income, each dynasty experienced serious financial difficulties within a century of its founding. Official self-serving and corruption would worsen, administrative efficiency would decline, and there would be more factional quarrels at court. Potential rivals of the imperial family became more independent. Burdens on the peasantry were increased at the same time that dikes and canals were allowed to fall into disrepair. Famines that previously would have been met from government granaries now would lead to starvation, banditry, and peasant uprisings. Inadequately maintained fronteir defenses crumbled. Provincial officials and their armies began to defect. The resulting wars would clear the slate for a new dynasty. (Tainter, 1988)
As in the West, agriculture provided the impetus for constant growth, despite the fact that the ecological devastation wrought by agriculture would not always allow for such growth and often led to periods of contraction.
In this context, the success of the geographic expansion of the Chinese empire was at the same time a success in the growth of the Chinese agricultural sector. Firstly, regardless of its ten main soil types, the empire’s territory was converted to a huge farming zone. Secondly, the agricultural sector was by far the single most important source of employment for the majority Chinese. Thirdly, taxes from the agricultural sector made up the lion’s share of the state’s revenue.17
As in the West, agriculture led to private property, and reinforced a positive feedback loop of continual growth.
Private property rights over land also created incentives for the ordinary farmers to produce more and better. In doing so, the agricultural total factor productivity increased. Growth became intensive.18
The introduction of more industrial techniques has, of course, exacerbated the situation.
Rapid economic development and population growth in East Asia after World War II caused a dramatic increase in the rate of conversion of natural and agricultural areas to urban and industrial ones. China, for example, between 1957 and 1990, lost an area of cropland equal to all the cropland of France, Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands combined.19
But this is a far cry from creating the situation. China today is already on the brink of total collapse—from water wars or its own growth—but it would be a mistake to think that industrialism created these problems. Chinese civilization deforested its land, salted its earth, eroded its soils, and plunged its people into despair, starvation, and even grisly cannibalism all on its own, millennia before the Industrial Revolution. While these trends may have been intensified by contact with a more complex competitor, China provides no model of sustainability. As admirable as techniques like “night soil” might be for slowing the process, there can be no doubt that the nature of that process is precisely the same in the East as it is in the West.
Works Cited
Diamond, J. (2005). Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed . New York: Viking Penguin Books.
Kötke, W.H. (1993). The Final Empire: The Collapse of Civilization and the Seed of the Future. Portland: Arrow Point Press.
Manning, R. (2005). Against the Grain: How Agriculture Hijacked Civilization. New York: North Point Press.
Smith, J.R. (1977). Tree Crops: A Permanent Agriculture. Old Greenwich: Devin-Adair Co.
Tainter, J.A. (1988). Collapse of Complex Societies. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.





















I’m not a botanist but my understanding is that manure (human or otherwise) is used to return nutrients to the soil not energy. The energy, as you stated, comes from the sun.
JimFive
Comment by JimFive — 13 October 2006 @ 12:18 PM
Nutrients are energy.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 13 October 2006 @ 12:38 PM
Nutrients are to energy as platinum in the fuel cell is to fuel
Comment by _Gi — 13 October 2006 @ 3:55 PM
I think of nutrients like comparing kinetic with potential energy. Each trophic succession adds diversity to the soil life. With more soil life, there will be more plants. With more plant eaters, there will be more soil life. In a sense, the potential energy is the net biodiversity of a given community.
I’m surprised I never hear Henry George concepts used to explain how land ownership causes poverty, which in turn drives population/food production. Money as a token of stored surplus seems to fit into this discussion, except loosing sight of the fact that we need to eat, not spend money. In essence, natural systems make better banks for storing nutrients.
Speaking of natural systems, you mention labor requirements for rice production. Masanobu Fukuoka has demonstrated that this work is all quite unnecessary and ironically reduces how much rice grows; plowing kills the soil community, flooding damages roots even further, which leaves the crop to dependent upon fertilizer to resuscitate it, pesticides to keep the defective plant clean up crew out, then new plants to replace the plants that can keep on growing and reseeding themselves like they used to do. I believe he pin pointed various insects that contribute more effectively to improve cultivars than scientists blindly attempt.
Comment by -Sean. — 13 October 2006 @ 5:07 PM
Fukoka wanders pretty close to horticulture with his “natural farming” in a lot of ways. The problem is that his method, like other horticultural methods, doesn’t really scale. For feeding a person or a small community, they have an efficiency better than anything humans have ever tried, but it caps out. To get past that cap requires intensification. You grow less per acre, and it takes a lot more input in labor and so forth, and it costs a lot more (in soil loss and so forth), but your absolute yield increases. Once upon a time, Fukoka’s methods were actually used in China. Then the population went up, and they got another “win” in the Food Race by intesnfiying production. More labor, less efficient, but the absolute yield increased.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 13 October 2006 @ 5:13 PM
WRT cannibalism in China:
There’s a good argument against civilization. It forces us to turn into the very monsters such as the witch in the gingerbread house in “Hansel and Gretel” who were the villains of our so-called fairy tales.
Comment by venuspluto67 — 13 October 2006 @ 6:06 PM
When properly composted or mouldered, human manure can made virally and bacteriologically safe in small-scale applications to great effect. Modern pharmaceuticals pose another issue entirely. I think that there is the possibility of safely and effectively integrating the human waste cycle into horticulture, but I doubt (as illustrated above) that this can effectively scale into “agriculture.” There are many problems for transition communities — “benign” pharmaceuticals that are commonplace in modern western populations can become exceptionally dangerous when concentrated through human waste recycling. Specifically, many anti-depressants or other neuro-active pharmaceuticals are quickly passed out of the consumer through waste, but concentrate in the soils if humanure is used. They can then produce toxic interactions, or be individually toxic to a fetus, newborn, or children still in the formative stages of mental development.
Even on a small-scale, imagine the difficulty: “I’m sorry, thanks for coming over for dinner, but before you take a crap in my composting toilet can you fill out this brief survey on your use of Zoloft, Paxil, Provigil, and 200 other medicines?” Recycling human waste seems quite possible in a small-scale, closed loop environment, but when there are outside inputs it may actually amplify issues like pharmaceutical toxicity.
Comment by Jeff Vail — 13 October 2006 @ 9:37 PM
To clarify what the first few commenters started in on….
The agronomic macronutrients (nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, carbon (organic matter)) that Jenkins is talking about with humanure composting are not the primary energy product of agriculture…they’re a catalyst, allowing the plants to turn sunlight into (usually) high-energy starches . The law of conservation of mass-energy shouldn’t apply, then, as they are not used up in the process. Cycled, yes. Often volatile, yes. But not ‘burned up’ as an energy source.
The terracing and other landscape alterations of eastern agriculture had huge effects of the productivity of the land, in terms of human calories per acre. Of course, the upkeep of those earthworks must be staggering, and the loss of hillslope forests does no good for the viability of the settlement downstream. But it wins you a heat in the food race, and so it continues.
An interesting view of china & japan’s agricultural economy of a century ago is FH King’s “Farmers of 40 Centuries”. I delves deeply into the routine of many of these practices, from terrace maintenance to hand plowing to pumping water to night soil management. Soilandhealth.org has it without photos, but the pictures are pretty informative.
Comment by rich — 15 October 2006 @ 11:34 AM
There’s a lot of potential for humanure, and Jenkins’ book is all about that. It specifically advises against the use of night soil as in China because it’s such a disease vector, and instead advocates composting, which makes it much less dangerous.
As for nutrients, hat may be true for the plant side of the equation, but humans at least do use those nutrients in their own bodies. Our feces do not return 100% of the nutrients we consume. So there’s less going in each time the cycle iterates.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 16 October 2006 @ 10:08 AM
100% of nutrients may take 90 years to get back to the soil, but they do go back; one way or another.
A similar discussion, regarding humanure, has been taking place on the ibiblio permaculture email list. Apparently, disease vectors are more a function of failed composting and primarily affects ground water. Compost should reache temperatures around 160 degrees fahrenheit, yet what we worry about will have been killed between 120 and 140. The same issues arise in cities when there are concerns about rats getting to the compost pile, yet 160 would kill them, too. The rats and microbes can survive when the pile doesn’t get hot enough (not enough oxygen? C:N?).
What you see on the surface - plants, animals, insects, etc - is only the tip of the ice. The energy we primarily see is in the form of glucose and protein. The nutrients are a different discussion. Take your pick. The humanure isn’t your source of NPK, your urine is the NPK discussion.
Yes, pharmaceuticals complicate the discussion, yet even those are primarily tar products from oil and coal. Various mushrooms have been shown to be effective for even these industrial chemicals. However, are we discussing today or tomorrow? Energy or nutrients?
The natural discussion is easier, life builds upon itself, as if expanding the available nutrients to fill the CO2 and H2O sun void.
Comment by -Sean. — 16 October 2006 @ 10:51 AM
No, it really doesn’t. That one person may die and decompose, but he also leaves more offspring than himself, who are taking in more nutrients. As time goes on, more and more of the nutrients in the soil find their way circulating in human blood streams. The use of humanure greatly slows this process, but even so, the soil is being depleted. The more human beings there are, necessarily, the less nutrients there can be in the soil.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 16 October 2006 @ 10:56 AM
You may ban me from this IP address as well, but I’m just saying, after reading Giuli’s response to “suburbanguy,” about not reading the article, that I have now read your article about Chinese agriculture, and am now off to reading the sources…I don’t have enough data in my mind to agree or not, so I’m off to the bookstore.
Comment by Taylor — 16 October 2006 @ 11:47 AM
To help me understand this article and other articles better.
Comment by Taylor — 16 October 2006 @ 11:47 AM
Please forgive me Jason (we can take this off the posts if you want). I’m hearing you say a biosystem is depleted by being a part of it. Kind of like saying a tree depletes a forest by being in it, though semantically it could in an industrial setting. My point is that you are using static analysis for a much more dynamic system.
If the tree were the only thing growing, then the tree would absolutely diminish the system. The reason the tree doesn’t diminish a biosystem (life couldn’t exist otherwise) is that it is only a small part of the overall biodiversity. A biosystem can’t be simplified by energy input alone; nor can minerals be taken alone; nor can a small set of species be expected to remain stable (agriculture is unreliable, leading to desertification).
Comment by -Sean. — 16 October 2006 @ 2:47 PM
No need to take it off the comments, it’s all quite pertinent. I’m not saying a biosystem is depleted by being a part of it, what I’m saying is that humans are a part of a biosystem, so in order to increase the number of humans, you need to increase the percentage of the biosystem that humans make up, and that means that everything else in the biosystem is going to have to do with less. If you want to double the human population in a given biosystem, you’re going to need to double the amount of nutrients that are circulating in human blood, and not in the soil. We need to remember that we’re not talking about healthy human populations here maintaining a dynamic equilibrium with their environment; we’re talking about constantly increasing populations. In China, specifically, we’re talking about a billion people.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 16 October 2006 @ 3:01 PM
-Sean is way ahead of me on this, so just a quick note…..
Theoretically, you could ‘close the loop’ on an agroecosystem’s nutrients(NPK, + micros), recycling everything that was excreted, composting the dead, etc. Whether or not it is worth the energetic cost of doing so, is another question.
It is *not* theoretically possible to close the loop on energy production, due to the laws of thermodynamics and the trophic limitations imposed by those laws (as Jason mentioned in the article).
Good thing that sun continues to shine…
Comment by rich — 16 October 2006 @ 7:45 PM
Assuming a static population. If your population is growing, then the amount of nutrients being taken out is larger than the nutrients being returned. Otherwise, the population wouldn’t be growing.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 16 October 2006 @ 8:48 PM
The NPK isn’t really open or closed, but rather a measure of solar energy storage. Deserts demonstrate areas not storing energy. Life is more practically Cx[Nx]HxOx with the rest more comparable to being a catalyst to generate this sugar and protein.
For the purposes of discussing China, the deserts mean that China depends on energy input, having sacrificed biodiversity long ago. To build up the soil again, they need the biodiversity back that did this for them before practicing agriculture. Since they couldn’t possibly know what was lost, they have little hope of shedding their energy dependency to support such a large population. Waiting for nature to take it’s course may take tens of thousands of years.
This is what Permaculture and Natural Farming seek to address. China and India may be too far gone to keep the coming population collapse graceful. I’d say the writing is on the wall on this one.
Comment by -Sean. — 17 October 2006 @ 1:03 PM
The wonder of Chinese civilisation is that it is still here after 1,828 famines. Those Taoists that you mention in passing are those ancient Chinese that were able to see the folly of the social systemthey lived in and retired to mountains for subsistence living (plus spiritual practices). China’s advantage (until recent times) is that there are mountains high enough, steep enough and barren enough to retire to without being swamped by millions of starving peasants at the time of the next famine. The Taoist literature is littered with the phrase Bu Mi (no grains) as the ancient Taoists were against wheat and rice for the same reasons that you are.
Having people astute enough (written history helps too) to figure out what was coming, before it arrived is one of the probable reasons for the longevity of Chinese civilisation. That and the fact regular flooding kills lots of people and deposits nutrient rich sediment on the many flood plains along the major rivers (plus the deltas). That and the almost continous warfare that helps reduce the population of soldiers and civilians alike, and is a feature of every agrarian civilisation.
As for farming systems, there is a constant amount of minerals and other elements on earth. In terms of energy, the energy exchange is net positive when energy is stored in carbon based lifeforms, of which a finite number can be sustained by the finite amount of minerals and other chemicals available to said organisms on the earth’s surface.
Comment by Ian Thompson — 28 December 2006 @ 7:31 PM
I’m not sure I’d call them the same reasons, but Taoists are some of our natural allies, absolutely.
The more minerals that are locked up in animal bodies, the less there is in the soil. Overpopulation thus leads to poorer soil, causing die-off, and as the corpses decay, the minerals are returned to the soil. As you say, the amount is ultimately constant, but this is precisely why agriculture cannot be continued indefinately. Constant growth is simply not possible.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 2 January 2007 @ 3:03 PM
Hi,
Can you provide any figures regarding the ammounts of essential minerals available in soil/water versus those trapped in living tissue?
While it is scientifically true the more oxigen is trapped in living tissue the less it remains in atmosphere, that doesnt mean there isnt many times more free oxigen (2 tons/square meter) than in living things
——-
Also I could not find references regarding the “Swapping Children / Making Food” in ancient China.
Comment by Cezar T. — 8 June 2007 @ 9:14 AM
The mineral content of Asia’s soils is 76% depleted. North America’s worst, with 85%, and Australia does best, at “just” 55%.
As for the “Swapping Children/Making Food,” check Manning’s Against the Grain.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 8 June 2007 @ 9:42 AM
Yes but is there evidence the missing % of minerals are now stored into human bodies or they were just lost through poor agriculture practice.
I’m not sure this one - finite amount of minerals in soil - is the ultimate factor limiting biomass density on earth.
Comment by Cezar T. — 14 June 2007 @ 8:07 AM