Comments on: Scientific Racism and Migrations to the New World http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/ se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yenki Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:54:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-69674 Jason Godesky Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:46:15 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-69674 Perhaps you should read the article again; she never says aything about whether the Solutrean theory is true or not, but rather, what people do with it. I think it's important to consider the way scientific theories affect society--particularly when, as this article points out, we cherry-pick which ones we'll listen to in order to buttress completely hypocritical beliefs like Donahue's quoted above. The place for that consideration probably isn't when you're evaluating whether the theory is true or false, but it's something that should happen somewhere, and a blog article that never concerns itself with the truth or falsity of the theory itself seems as good a place as any to me. Perhaps you should read the article again; she never says aything about whether the Solutrean theory is true or not, but rather, what people do with it. I think it’s important to consider the way scientific theories affect society–particularly when, as this article points out, we cherry-pick which ones we’ll listen to in order to buttress completely hypocritical beliefs like Donahue’s quoted above. The place for that consideration probably isn’t when you’re evaluating whether the theory is true or false, but it’s something that should happen somewhere, and a blog article that never concerns itself with the truth or falsity of the theory itself seems as good a place as any to me.

]]> By: Tom Walls http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-68912 Tom Walls Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:26:46 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-68912 Nice article. However, endorsement of a theory by a fringe group does not automatically discredit it. Quite often, such groups use (and _distort_) anthropogical anomalies to bolster their own notion of superiority, whether it be the Solutrean hypothesis, blond Guanches or tall, fair-skinned Chachapoyas in Peru. One Pan-African group even claims the Dravidians of India as their own. The truth is, few in the scholarly community take the fringe groups seriously. On the other hand, it's mainly political correctness and academic rigidity that stifles any new evidence or research in these areas, particularly anything in the Americas that appears to predate Clovis. Give up the politics, and stop worrying about offending anyone's beliefs or worrying about which fringe group will exploit the evidence . The best comment was the one referring to it as the "SoulTrain Hypothesis." Cheers, Tom Nice article. However, endorsement of a theory by a fringe group does not automatically discredit it. Quite often, such groups use (and _distort_) anthropogical anomalies to bolster their own notion of superiority, whether it be the Solutrean hypothesis, blond Guanches or tall, fair-skinned Chachapoyas in Peru. One Pan-African group even claims the Dravidians of India as their own.

The truth is, few in the scholarly community take the fringe groups seriously. On the other hand, it’s mainly political correctness and academic rigidity that stifles any new evidence or research in these areas, particularly anything in the Americas that appears to predate Clovis. Give up the politics, and stop worrying about offending anyone’s beliefs or worrying about which fringe group will exploit the evidence .

The best comment was the one referring to it as the “SoulTrain Hypothesis.”

Cheers,

Tom

]]> By: Giulianna Lamanna http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25662 Giulianna Lamanna Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:22:57 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25662 <blockquote>Let us imagine that in fact all native Americans are descended from a small group of Cro-Magnons from 'Europe'... hey, no genocide, we're all Europeans! Non sequitur? </blockquote> Total non sequitur. You make an excellent point. Just because it's done to other Europeans doesn't make it right. See: the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, the Balkans, and pretty much everything that's ever happened between France and Germany.

Let us imagine that in fact all native Americans are descended from a small group of Cro-Magnons from ‘Europe’… hey, no genocide, we’re all Europeans!

Non sequitur?

Total non sequitur. You make an excellent point. Just because it’s done to other Europeans doesn’t make it right. See: the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, the Balkans, and pretty much everything that’s ever happened between France and Germany.

]]> By: Eric http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25575 Eric Fri, 13 Oct 2006 04:47:07 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25575 It shouldn't make any difference where the ancestors of America's native peoples came from. Whoever they were, they got there a long time ago, created unique societies, and eventually had them decimated by European genocide. Let us imagine that in fact all native Americans are descended from a small group of Cro-Magnons from 'Europe'... hey, no genocide, we're all Europeans! Non sequitur? It shouldn’t make any difference where the ancestors of America’s native peoples came from. Whoever they were, they got there a long time ago, created unique societies, and eventually had them decimated by European genocide. Let us imagine that in fact all native Americans are descended from a small group of Cro-Magnons from ‘Europe’… hey, no genocide, we’re all Europeans!

Non sequitur?

]]> By: some random dude http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25528 some random dude Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:37:22 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25528 never thought of it that way. i'll buy that... never thought of it that way. i’ll buy that…

]]> By: janene http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25413 janene Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:34:26 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25413 Jason, that is an awesome insight. But that's all I'm gonna say cos Giuli called the tangent over :-) Janene Jason, that is an awesome insight.

But that’s all I’m gonna say cos Giuli called the tangent over :-)

Janene

]]> By: Giulianna Lamanna http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25412 Giulianna Lamanna Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:29:56 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25412 <blockquote>Racism implies, at the very least, that you're close enough to bother with them, and more often, that you fear that you might not <em>actually</em> be so superior after all.</blockquote> Good point. I'd like to add, just how weak do these neo-Nazis think their own culture is, if merely coming into contact with another culture is apparently enough to destroy it? In any case, before this topic monopolizes the whole thread, let's get back to the more interesting archaeological discussion.

Racism implies, at the very least, that you’re close enough to bother with them, and more often, that you fear that you might not actually be so superior after all.

Good point. I’d like to add, just how weak do these neo-Nazis think their own culture is, if merely coming into contact with another culture is apparently enough to destroy it?

In any case, before this topic monopolizes the whole thread, let’s get back to the more interesting archaeological discussion.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25410 Jason Godesky Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:19:11 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25410 Isn't it more logical, if you believe yourself so superior, to <em>ignore</em> your "inferiors"? If anything, I'd say these racist groups suffer from the <em>breakdown</em> of ethnocentrism. I mean, look at Hitler's idea of the Jews. Though "inferior," according to Hitler, they had managed to gain control of everything. Doesn't that imply that they're actually superior? I think racism (which is largely a recent phenomenon, quite distinct from ethnocentrism, arising from the pattern of spreading complexity and the strong correlation that thus resulted between African descent and slavery) has more to do with what happens when our ethnocentrism is threatened—when we <em>don't</em> believe that we're superior to all others. Look at Rome, or China—aloof disdain is the logical consequence of ethnocentrism, not racism. Racism implies, at the very least, that you're close enough to bother with them, and more often, that you fear that you might not <em>actually</em> be so superior after all. Isn’t it more logical, if you believe yourself so superior, to ignore your “inferiors”? If anything, I’d say these racist groups suffer from the breakdown of ethnocentrism. I mean, look at Hitler’s idea of the Jews. Though “inferior,” according to Hitler, they had managed to gain control of everything. Doesn’t that imply that they’re actually superior? I think racism (which is largely a recent phenomenon, quite distinct from ethnocentrism, arising from the pattern of spreading complexity and the strong correlation that thus resulted between African descent and slavery) has more to do with what happens when our ethnocentrism is threatened—when we don’t believe that we’re superior to all others. Look at Rome, or China—aloof disdain is the logical consequence of ethnocentrism, not racism. Racism implies, at the very least, that you’re close enough to bother with them, and more often, that you fear that you might not actually be so superior after all.

]]> By: Giulianna Lamanna http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25409 Giulianna Lamanna Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:14:12 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25409 <blockquote>You are right, there is indeed a difference between calling oneself the Chosen People and concentration camps. The only difference is one of action, not ideology. It is the same "i am better than you b/c I am a ___" ideology, just not taken to its "logical" conclusion, i.e. extermination camps.</blockquote> Every society believes that theirs is better than every other society. It's a human universal. However, in tribal societies the "logical conclusion" of that belief is not extermination, but solidarity. The group's believed superiority doesn't make them go out and kill everyone who isn't them—it only prevents people who might otherwise leave the group from doing so. The only context in which it is desirable, or even possible, to exterminate other groups is in civilization. Which brings us back to this site's main purpose. <blockquote>But, rather than take nuetral tack, like linking it to a google search result of National Vanguard, you linked it to their "enemies' " denunciation of them. A great way to reinforce their stupidity, and to "persecute" them even more.</blockquote> So either we reinforce their pathetic persecution complex by linking to ADL instead of them (by the way, read the article: it's not even a denunciation, but a news article about the group's recent split from National Alliance) or we support them by directly linking to them. Which one do you think helps them more?

You are right, there is indeed a difference between calling oneself the Chosen People and concentration camps. The only difference is one of action, not ideology. It is the same “i am better than you b/c I am a ___” ideology, just not taken to its “logical” conclusion, i.e. extermination camps.

Every society believes that theirs is better than every other society. It’s a human universal. However, in tribal societies the “logical conclusion” of that belief is not extermination, but solidarity. The group’s believed superiority doesn’t make them go out and kill everyone who isn’t them—it only prevents people who might otherwise leave the group from doing so. The only context in which it is desirable, or even possible, to exterminate other groups is in civilization. Which brings us back to this site’s main purpose.

But, rather than take nuetral tack, like linking it to a google search result of National Vanguard, you linked it to their “enemies’ ” denunciation of them. A great way to reinforce their stupidity, and to “persecute” them even more.

So either we reinforce their pathetic persecution complex by linking to ADL instead of them (by the way, read the article: it’s not even a denunciation, but a news article about the group’s recent split from National Alliance) or we support them by directly linking to them. Which one do you think helps them more?

]]> By: some random dude http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25407 some random dude Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:05:34 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2006/10/scientific-racism-and-migrations-to-the-new-world/#comment-25407 You are right, there is indeed a difference between calling oneself the Chosen People and concentration camps. The only difference is one of action, not ideology. It is the same "i am better than you b/c I am a ___" ideology, just not taken to its "logical" conclusion, i.e. extermination camps. I was unaware of the link refferer thing, so I am sorry. But, rather than take nuetral tack, like linking it to a google search result of National Vanguard, you linked it to their "enemies' " denunciation of them. A great way to reinforce their stupidity, and to "persecute" them even more. You are right, there is indeed a difference between calling oneself the Chosen People and concentration camps. The only difference is one of action, not ideology. It is the same “i am better than you b/c I am a ___” ideology, just not taken to its “logical” conclusion, i.e. extermination camps.
I was unaware of the link refferer thing, so I am sorry.
But, rather than take nuetral tack, like linking it to a google search result of National Vanguard, you linked it to their “enemies’ ” denunciation of them. A great way to reinforce their stupidity, and to “persecute” them even more.

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