Comments on: The Healer http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/ se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yenki Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:28:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Kiva Rose http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-171167 Kiva Rose Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:42:04 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-171167 exactly.... but you have to take into account, the injured instincts aspect of it... people often have to peel back a few layers of skin before they can feel again... not true of everyone, but true for many... when i lead rewilding experiences here, it's part of the process to lay down the baggage, armor and expectations in order to feel what we're really feeling.... people often try to feel with just their brains, or react from fear or unfamiliarity. I should point out that I don't mean objectiveness by awareness, I mean being open to experiencing sensation... the kind of awareness one needs to hunt, or heal, or pray. exactly…. but you have to take into account, the injured instincts aspect of it… people often have to peel back a few layers of skin before they can feel again… not true of everyone, but true for many… when i lead rewilding experiences here, it’s part of the process to lay down the baggage, armor and expectations in order to feel what we’re really feeling…. people often try to feel with just their brains, or react from fear or unfamiliarity.

I should point out that I don’t mean objectiveness by awareness, I mean being open to experiencing sensation… the kind of awareness one needs to hunt, or heal, or pray.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-171135 Jason Godesky Fri, 17 Aug 2007 00:29:27 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-171135 Oh, I don't know. I think we've become entirely too wrapped up in the traps of subjectivism vs. objectivism. I think the time's certainly come to trust our feelings a good deal more, and stop second-guessing them all the time. Oh, I don’t know. I think we’ve become entirely too wrapped up in the traps of subjectivism vs. objectivism. I think the time’s certainly come to trust our feelings a good deal more, and stop second-guessing them all the time.

]]> By: Kiva Rose http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-171119 Kiva Rose Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:13:42 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-171119 I like the different perspectives, and I will often share more than one teaching story about a certain plant with students, since different people will connect and heal in a different way depending... It is difficult to find stories that honestly reflect the plants and their teachings rather the projections of the human telling the tale though. It takes a pretty intense awareness of ourselves, others, and our innate connection to other (a seeming contradiction, but not so) in order to "hear" the lesson and gift the plants have. Thanks again. I like the different perspectives, and I will often share more than one teaching story about a certain plant with students, since different people will connect and heal in a different way depending…

It is difficult to find stories that honestly reflect the plants and their teachings rather the projections of the human telling the tale though. It takes a pretty intense awareness of ourselves, others, and our innate connection to other (a seeming contradiction, but not so) in order to “hear” the lesson and gift the plants have.

Thanks again.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170958 Jason Godesky Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:34:54 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170958 Modern medicine has a definite love/hate relationship with herbalism. Debunking folk traditions has been a cultural objective for science since the Enlightenment. You're right that nearly all of our pharmaceuticals have been appropriated from herbal remedies, but that hasn't stopped the ethnocentric and typically ethnomedical response that all other ethnomedical systems (like herbalism) are just superstitions. I'm not saying they did the study just to turn their nose up at herbalism; I'm saying that there's a cultural bias, which leads to blinders, which leads to studies like these that are so sloppy that they'd never be allowed to stand, except that they told us what we want to hear. Science is typically at its most sloppy when it tells us what we want to hear, because then we don't bother to examine it very closely. Modern medicine has a definite love/hate relationship with herbalism. Debunking folk traditions has been a cultural objective for science since the Enlightenment. You’re right that nearly all of our pharmaceuticals have been appropriated from herbal remedies, but that hasn’t stopped the ethnocentric and typically ethnomedical response that all other ethnomedical systems (like herbalism) are just superstitions. I’m not saying they did the study just to turn their nose up at herbalism; I’m saying that there’s a cultural bias, which leads to blinders, which leads to studies like these that are so sloppy that they’d never be allowed to stand, except that they told us what we want to hear. Science is typically at its most sloppy when it tells us what we want to hear, because then we don’t bother to examine it very closely.

]]> By: Void_genesis http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170892 Void_genesis Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:35:32 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170892 I'm sorry to disagree but that is exactly how it works. The allergic reaction is to the urushiol that gets stuck onto your cells surfaces. Incidentally the Amerindians apparently used to chew young poison ivy shoots during the early spring to induce a hypoallergenic response to skin exposure. Anyone willing to give it a go and report back the results? Most of the money making drugs being pumped out by the evil pharmaceutical companies have their origins in living organisms, usually land plants, and they love stealing from the herbal traditions that tapped into them previously. To imply that scientists run these kind of experiments (ie the jewel weed/urushiol trial) just to debunk herbalism is pretty misguided. If a reasonably stable and active small molecule (or suite of them that acted together, also well established in mechanistic studies of herbal remedies) were present in the extract there was a good chance the experiment would have observed some result. Doing the same kind of experiment for other plants with more distinct activities certainly would. Being too certain without critical evaluation in either direction is what holds us back, either when we blindly believe that a miracle cure will treat everything, or that it is a useless backward superstition and not worth trying. Being too certain of anything leads us down the road of dogma and dictum. A positive though out of date study was easy enough to find: "The Results of a Clinical Study, in which a 1:4 jewelweed preparation was compared for its effectiveness with other standard poison ivy dermatitis treatments was published in 1958 (Annals of Allerty 1958;16:526-527). Of 115 patients treated with jewelweed, 108 responded ‘most dramatically to the topical application of this medication and were entirely relieved of their symptoms within 2 or 3 days after the institution of treatment.' It was concluded that jewelweed is an excellent substitute for ACTH and the corticosteroids in the treatment of poison ivy dermatitis. The active principle in the plant responsible for this activity remains unidentified." Curse those evil scientists! They just refuse to believe in anything that isnt reductionist! I’m sorry to disagree but that is exactly how it works. The allergic reaction is to the urushiol that gets stuck onto your cells surfaces. Incidentally the Amerindians apparently used to chew young poison ivy shoots during the early spring to induce a hypoallergenic response to skin exposure. Anyone willing to give it a go and report back the results?

Most of the money making drugs being pumped out by the evil pharmaceutical companies have their origins in living organisms, usually land plants, and they love stealing from the herbal traditions that tapped into them previously. To imply that scientists run these kind of experiments (ie the jewel weed/urushiol trial) just to debunk herbalism is pretty misguided. If a reasonably stable and active small molecule (or suite of them that acted together, also well established in mechanistic studies of herbal remedies) were present in the extract there was a good chance the experiment would have observed some result. Doing the same kind of experiment for other plants with more distinct activities certainly would.

Being too certain without critical evaluation in either direction is what holds us back, either when we blindly believe that a miracle cure will treat everything, or that it is a useless backward superstition and not worth trying. Being too certain of anything leads us down the road of dogma and dictum.

A positive though out of date study was easy enough to find:

“The Results of a Clinical Study, in which a 1:4 jewelweed preparation was compared for its effectiveness with other standard poison ivy dermatitis treatments was published in 1958 (Annals of Allerty 1958;16:526-527). Of 115 patients treated with jewelweed, 108 responded ‘most dramatically to the topical application of this medication and were entirely relieved of their symptoms within 2 or 3 days after the institution of treatment.’ It was concluded that jewelweed is an excellent substitute for ACTH and the corticosteroids in the treatment of poison ivy dermatitis. The active principle in the plant responsible for this activity remains unidentified.”

Curse those evil scientists! They just refuse to believe in anything that isnt reductionist!

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170878 Jason Godesky Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:50:42 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170878 That's great! I'm not sure I like the moral of that story, but hey, the more the merrier. If we're going to create a new growth mythology, it's going to take many different perspectives. And you say that's a big part of the way you teach? That's great, too; because that's how wild humans learned about plants, and that's how feral humans will need to learn about them, too. That’s great! I’m not sure I like the moral of that story, but hey, the more the merrier. If we’re going to create a new growth mythology, it’s going to take many different perspectives. And you say that’s a big part of the way you teach? That’s great, too; because that’s how wild humans learned about plants, and that’s how feral humans will need to learn about them, too.

]]> By: Kiva Rose http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170872 Kiva Rose Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:25:01 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170872 I love these kind of stories and they're a big part of the way I teach others to work with the plants. I thought you might like this other, but parallel, Poison Ivy story by Michigan herbalist, Jim McDonald: http://herbcraft.org/poisonivy.html Nicely done. I love these kind of stories and they’re a big part of the way I teach others to work with the plants. I thought you might like this other, but parallel, Poison Ivy story by Michigan herbalist, Jim McDonald: http://herbcraft.org/poisonivy.html

Nicely done.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170273 Jason Godesky Fri, 10 Aug 2007 03:10:13 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170273 By no means, the more the merrier! The whole idea is to inspire people to pick up similar ideas and run with it. We're laying the foundations of our own mythology, and if that helps you to start doing something similar, well, that just means it's been effective! By no means, the more the merrier! The whole idea is to inspire people to pick up similar ideas and run with it. We’re laying the foundations of our own mythology, and if that helps you to start doing something similar, well, that just means it’s been effective!

]]> By: Hobo Stripper http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170243 Hobo Stripper Thu, 09 Aug 2007 23:31:14 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-170243 Great idea for a series. I won't steal it. Great idea for a series. I won’t steal it.

]]> By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-169995 Jason Godesky Wed, 08 Aug 2007 12:40:26 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/07/the-healer/#comment-169995 That's not quite how it works. There's a nearly universal human allergic response (which is basically what you described) to urushiol, which is also found in poison oak and poison sumac (not <em>quite</em> universal, though; about 10% of the population appears to have little or no reaction). There are any number of ways that jewelweed might be effective: it might simply be other proteins as you suggest, it might contain other chemicals that individually or in combination might bind with and thus neutralize urushiol, or it might even act as a histamine blocker. There are may more possibilities than simply what you've suggested. Unfortunately, those questions have not really been asked. We're too interested in debunking herbal remedies to actually ask if they might be effective, and that leads to the kind of useless studies we talked about above. That’s not quite how it works. There’s a nearly universal human allergic response (which is basically what you described) to urushiol, which is also found in poison oak and poison sumac (not quite universal, though; about 10% of the population appears to have little or no reaction). There are any number of ways that jewelweed might be effective: it might simply be other proteins as you suggest, it might contain other chemicals that individually or in combination might bind with and thus neutralize urushiol, or it might even act as a histamine blocker. There are may more possibilities than simply what you’ve suggested. Unfortunately, those questions have not really been asked. We’re too interested in debunking herbal remedies to actually ask if they might be effective, and that leads to the kind of useless studies we talked about above.

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