Blacklisting
by Jason GodeskyI’ve been a fool. For a long time, I’ve been advocating for a holistic sense of rewilding; changing culture, rather than simply focusing on primitive skills, and rewilding rather than resisting. Fortunately, a small, brave cadre of commenters have shown me the error of my ways, and how projects like the Fifth World, or Giuli’s Fabulous Forager, fundamentally betray primitivism. They’re absolutely right; this is nothing more than an excuse to cling to our old, civilized addictions. We can’t suffer that kind of impurity, and with that in mind, to try to rectify for my past wrongs, I’ve come up with some lists to give up others like myself, in the hopes that those brave souls who so helped me, might also be able to help them.
First, I’ve discovered some other civilized addictions which we must eradicate, in order to maintain the purity of the anarcho-primitivist revolution. Like telling stories, bathing, playing games or trying to look good, these pointless wastes of time merely separate us from our real experience of pure wilderness.
- Eating. Why, just look at me! I’ve learned that playing games or having personal hygiene aren’t just things that civilized people sometimes take too far, but are always indulgences of civilized addictions. Eating is the same way. Real primitivists don’t eat, and that’s why I’m not eating anymore.
- Shelter. Just look at the houses civilized people build! The very word “domestication” comes from domus, house. How can you call yourself a primitivist and live in shelters like a domesticated person?
- Language. John Zerzan made that argument quite explicitly. Language is abstraction, and abstraction is what makes us domesticated. It’s not just that civilized people use language in ways that separate them from their senses, that’s the kind of half-hearted, lame thing I might have said before my conversion. No, it’s language’s fault itself.
More importantly, now that these good-hearted, kind people have finally helped me to see the light, I know of some others that similarly need to be stopped from their constant embarrassments of primitivism:
- The Hazda. These supposed “hunter-gatherers” spend nearly all of their time telling stories and playing their gambling game, lukucuko. It’s like nothing more than a life-long gaming convention. Fortunately, since their traditional lands have been encroached upon and their traditional ways of life dismantled, they’ve been doing a lot less of their gaming, so thankfully, civilization has made them much more primitive.
- The Haudenosaunee. Bunch of nancy-boys would pluck every hair from their body with clams, bathe incessantly, perfume themselves and put bear fat in their hair. What’s primitive about that? Civilized people spend their lives obsessing about their looks, not primitive people.
- The Inuit. They would settle disputes by singing songs, can you believe that? Songs are language, and language is abstraction, and abstraction is civilized. They go around calling themselves “hunter-gatherers,” but there’s nothing primitive about a bunch of people who act like this.
And then there are supposed primitivists who used to say things like I used to say, like Tom Brown, who wrote:
Role playing during a hunting, stalking, or hiding exercise is very important to the touching of an animal. Role playing helps one to gear down in body, mind, and emotion, making that person almost invisible. I don’t know how many students have been stalking or awaiting an animal’s passing only to have that animal run off at the last moment, spooked by some unforeseen fear. What usually happens is that the person hiding or stalking gets excited and this excitement is picked up by the animal in a physical-spiritual level, causing the animal to run off because of some gut level feeling the animal senses.
Once a person has mastered role playing, he becomes almost invisible to the animal in all respects. The Native American people took great time and care in this preparation before a hunt, and this age-old practice can be very beneficial to you, also.
Or Tamarack Song, who wrote:
We come from a technological society, so we naturally think that substituting primitive technology for civilized technology is our doorway. The only problem is that Native people are not into technology. They spend only a couple hours a day providing for their simple needs, and they mostly use simple means. Look at their tools — few and crude, and their craftwork — basic and utilitarian. What a Native person excels at is what I call qualitative skills — how to sit in a circle with your clan mates and speak your truth, how to find your special talent so that you can develop it to serve your people, how to use your intuition, the ways of honor and respect, how to live in balance with elders and women and children, how to speak in the language beyond words, how to befriend fear and live love. Without these skills, you will surely die. Or else you’ll go back to the life that shuns these skills.
I mean, what nonsense, am I right? Primitivism doesn’t mean valuing the ways that primitive people lived for millennia; it means blind adherence to a puritanical stereotype of primitive living, and indulging a bunch of Romantic misconceptions. I’m glad our commenters helped me understand that. Thank you; I hope outing the other embarrassments to primitivsm out ther have helped you find some other people that you might be able to help as much as you’ve helped me. I mean this as sincerely as anything I’ve written here: we appreciate all you’ve done for us.
You might have noticed that I’ve been writing most of my most recent posts in E-Prime. I didn’t write this one in E-Prime, and I made that decision consciously. I’ll leave it as an exercise for the reader to puzzle out why.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 18 September 2007 @ 7:17 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!!!!
Comment by Urban Scout — 18 September 2007 @ 7:35 PM
Hey –
Didn’t you just claim that you do not write comedy?
:-) 
J
Comment by janene — 18 September 2007 @ 7:36 PM
Holy shit! The guy really does have a sense of humor.
Seriously, though, I lauged my ass off. Thanks, Jason.
Comment by Rix — 18 September 2007 @ 7:48 PM
It’s not humor, it’s sarcasm, the very lowest form of humor.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 18 September 2007 @ 8:14 PM
The very lowest form of humor is still humor, Jason.
Comment by Giulianna Lamanna — 18 September 2007 @ 8:36 PM
Call it what you will. I call it hilarious.
Funnily enough, my son noted sarcastic humor before any other kind. Which might indicate its baseness. Or it might simply indicate the baseness of my and my wife’s senses of humor.
Comment by Rix — 18 September 2007 @ 8:37 PM
Because grunting and beating each other with clubs is not really just a civilized stereotype.
Comment by locke — 18 September 2007 @ 8:48 PM
Ummm, yeah, it is.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 18 September 2007 @ 8:51 PM
Ummm, yeah, it is.
Heh… sorry. I was responding to your sarcastic post with sarcasm in kind. =p
Comment by locke — 18 September 2007 @ 9:00 PM
yummm…sarcasm? or satire: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire)–
even dare i say, Satyr-ism: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyr)?
’cause, ah, that’s kinda’ the most classical Western style of social/cultural/political critique an’ ‘at of ‘em all!
i applaud you, sir, for turning sour lemons into “uncontrollable erections”…eek?! (see Wiki for “Satyr” above and that will make more sense!)
seriously, dude, you get off on hard debate, and that’s NOT always a bad thing, it just doesn’t always work well with some people, depending upon your ultimate goals. it’s a style thing. but, ah, i think you already know that! and so long as you are able–as seems clearly to be the case–to step back sometimes and take a breath and just kinda’ laugh a little at the whole business, it will all work out okay in the end.
yeah, theory, myth, debate, tests, “reality”…they all have their place, and some folks enjoy getting down in that muckity muck more than others. and we do need to have some hashing about at that level from time to time. truth is, i think anyway, we won’t know what exactly we’ll need until it is far too late for planning…
except for one thing: community/tribe skills of some kind. i’ve taken The Lesson of New Orleans to heart, i guess.
but, you and Guili DO also “walk the walk” as best you can, and so much as you can fit into your over-all survival within The System, so, for me, that’s pretty much “cred” enough.
for my part, the bulk of the theory debates are an interesting side-line to the actual Doing of The Shit. yinz are trying to do both, so, more power to you in that respect (and to others, like Aaron, who may disagree with you some at times on various issues.) so long as it does not lead to people tearing each other down for just damn well *trying* then i don’t much care. maybe some folks’ “play” just isn’t the same as others’? so play nice?
Ran will be here on October 11th, which means he can’t make the Advanced P. Skills at R.C., but it is possible i will still try to fake my own way in (and hopefully not get y’all killed with my clueless-ness if i do?)
in any case, i traditionally have a gathering of some sort here in town around about the Celtic New Year, early on in November, on whatever moon/weekend feels most right, and i’d be pleased to invite you two (etc.) over, if you’re free. the people will not by any means all be in agreement (as in, mainly not “primitivists” but more “academics”/general discontents/slacker art types) on what they expect to happen to the world any time soon, or what they *hope* will happen, or anything else–what they WILL be in agreement upon, is having as good a time together dealing as best as they can, with whatever unfolds. not very “purist”…sorry! ha! if you are curious, email me and i’ll keep you posted.
my personal suspicion is that if anything happens fast-like, i’ll find myself having to build ad-hoc the best “tribe” i can, from whatever people happen to be around. not ideal, but…i’m staying urban i think until there is no longer such thing.
in more current news, i expect to be escorting my Fundamentalist Christian/organic, local food & herbal cures enthusiast Mom to that co-op Equinox Fest on Sunday…if you and G. wanna’ hook up, email and i’ll give you my cell number.
longer term, i don’t know where we are going, and i don’t know when we might get there, but what i want to know is: is there such a thing as tag-team bow-drill fire-making, and who can coach us on how that works? ’cause it looks too damn hard for me to manage alone: i’ve got strong arms, but Ran has better lungs!
-patricia
Comment by patricia — 19 September 2007 @ 3:51 AM
Where’s the love?
Comment by David — 19 September 2007 @ 8:13 AM
Funny. I just last night saw the South Park episode where they go to save the rain forest and learn just how naive and superficial their stereotypes of it were. Also, they killed Kenny.
Comment by Howard — 19 September 2007 @ 9:36 AM
Hmmmm…. do they really deserve all this effort?
Comment by TonyZ — 19 September 2007 @ 10:11 AM
I haven’t seen that one. I’m interested tho’, were their stereotypes of the “Noble Savage” persuasion or more of the “Stupid Caveman” persuasion? maybe both…?
Comment by jhereg — 19 September 2007 @ 10:47 AM
Jason, sarcasm, while often unbecoming, is not the lowest form of humor. Everyone knows thats the PUN.
And for the gaming haters: Gaming is certainly a better pass-time than, for example, internet trolling.
Comment by Andrew Jensen — 19 September 2007 @ 11:09 AM
Translation: I hate everybody and everything including myself. That’s how you go about being a rad righteous primitivist! All that “being constructive” stuff is for wussies.
Comment by venuspluto67 — 19 September 2007 @ 11:12 AM
Jhereg,
See Rainforest Schmainforest at the almighty Wikipedia. It knows all.
Howard
Comment by Howard — 19 September 2007 @ 11:20 AM
Jason,
First I just wanted to say, I’m with you brother! Thank the spirits those pseudo-civilized California tribes went away. I mean, for heavens’ sakes, they had MONEY!!! And now they lead the gambling craze. Terrifying! And the pressure to preserve “stories” instead of real honest-to-gods skills, feh. Who needs traditions? I’m going tell my friends at AISA to give it up now.
————————————————
And for a moment, over to Not Yet Blacklisted & Against Role Playing, Against Leviathan.
Gentle-folk, welcome to civilized thought, where you act as if one way is ALWAYS the wrong way. First off, “lard-ass”? The current game I’m running has a surfer, a highly athletic scientist, a corporate headhunter, a financial analyst, a computer designer and a grant writer. Out of those folks, pretty much me and the computer designer can be called lard asses (we both work in computers. Hm. Wonder what the similarity is). The rest have fine asses, thank you very much.
Back in the day, when I did this ’seriously’ as opposed to, say re-wilding as I do now, I played with rocket scientists and motorcycle gang members, jocks and geeks, pop culture divas and punk rockers. Hell, you want to tell my punk rock friends about the evils of roleplaying, he’ll take that flint knife out of your primitivist hands and feed it to you.
For f*cks sake, roleplaying is nothing more than storytelling and gambling, something that humans have done in abundance for millennia. To argue that its ‘form’ is wrong (’your roleplaying is not like REAL roleplaying’) is like arguing a duck isn’t a type of bird.
As our world, this civilized world, winds its way towards an end, are you really going to argue your way is the best way? Isn’t that the same kind of horsesh*t civ hands to us? Time and luck will tell us who lives and who doesn’t. Right now, our personal time would be better spent in humor and as human beings, helping others to round out those skills they don’t possess and learning those skills we don’t possess, learning flexibility in all things and, above all, staying prayerful, mindful and thankful for all we have accomplished and are trying to accomplish.
Best
Bill Maxwell
Los Angeles
Written in lily-white “to be”
Comment by Bill Maxwell — 19 September 2007 @ 12:17 PM
You know, you get what you put out as far as antagonism goes, right? People approach you in the ways you approach them.
Here’s another potential way for you to interact with people who disagree with you:
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/17/what-is-a-shared-value-community/
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/17/creating-a-skills-bank/
Comment by tim boucher — 19 September 2007 @ 1:16 PM
Liked Bill Maxwell’s comments just as an aside.
But to the really important stuff! The best quote of the week *drum roll* “Don’t Tase me bro!”
The tasing, was overkill in my opinion, although I would tend to think anyone going to listen to Mr. Kerry talk on & on in his monotone narrative should consider being tased upon entry. For a second I though that kid was Dane Cook and it was all a prank…but the quote above is sadly, my worthless quote of the week.
Comment by Bubba — 19 September 2007 @ 2:38 PM
I had not noticed. Which I think means that you have done it very well.
Comment by Rix — 19 September 2007 @ 2:40 PM
Firstly, there are some gaps in the discussion now that you might notice. That’s because I’ve marked the usual tirades appropriately: as spam. Their (his?) IP addresses have been added to the ban list, and from now on, we’ll be treating the troll as trolls need to be treated. I’m done wasting my time on them.
That said, a bit of an “FAQ” for posterity…
No. I think rewilding will bring down civilization.
Who said I’m not?
Rewilding is not the same as primitive skills. Sure, you need primitive skilsl to rewild, but rewilding goes beyond that. I don’t write about the parts of rewilding that everyone else is working on because, well, everybody else is already working on them. That would be dumb. So I get out whenever I can, I go fishing, I have a bow drill (and a bow), I’m learning to track, I’ve built my own shelter, so on and so forth. I don’t bother writing much about it, though, because it’s already been written. I have no interest in writing another field guide. There’s already plenty to choose from.
But then there’s the other parts of rewilding that have been completely neglected: the stories we tell, the games we play, the ways we relate to each other. Nobody’s writing about that, so I do. Beats writing another field guide.
Maybe. Maybe not. Certainly, you’re not going to have dice or character sheets with you when you’re stalking an animal. But notice he also said that this involved not just the time of stalking itself, but also the preparation beforehand. Role-playing games are rituals, and they help us become better at role-playing when stalking an animal, too.
Uh, no. Try reading what I wrote for once, dumb ass. See, outside there’s these things I like to call “night,” and “winter.” These things afford for plenty of downtime in a primitive skills sense. Practice your primitive skills whenever you get the chance. That’s what I do. And when you don’t have the chance—as often happens at night, or in winter—this is a way you can keep on rewilding at times when you’d normally have little else to do.
Now, onto the real comments.
w3rd, j0.
Haha, yes!
If that’s true, then where did it start? Sometimes, you get what you put out. Other times, you just get smacked.
Not to worry, though, Tim; I’ll be contributing as soon as I have the time. Lots of things going on at present, but I haven’t forgotten your project there.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 19 September 2007 @ 4:59 PM
Another approach may be to recognize that none of us are perfect. We’re all caught between two worlds - the one that we were raised in and programmed in and the one we aspire to. The fact that we can’t instantly live fully in the one we aspire to - or as Quinn puts it cross the river without getting wet - shouldn’t be seen as a failure. Perfectionism is the enemy of growth in this case. Making incremental steps toward a healthier life and continuing to build on them is all we can ask. Our ancestors didn’t become wild humans overnight and we aren’t going to become rewilded humans overnight.
Comment by Howard — 19 September 2007 @ 8:01 PM
Hear, hear. Actually wild humans talk about “becoming traditional” as lifelong journeys, even for them.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 19 September 2007 @ 8:04 PM
Cool, glad to hear you’ll be contributing! Just wanted to nudge you! Take er easy!
Comment by tim boucher — 19 September 2007 @ 8:37 PM
Yeah, the most annoying form of anything is the purist.
Besides, gaming is fun, and a great way to meet girls.
Comment by Andrew Jensen — 20 September 2007 @ 8:46 AM
Long live Imagination! Roleplaying is a vigorous method to produce interactional imaginative play…hard to believe people get so pissy about other people’s hobbies.
Geez, just cus’ the Titanic is taking on water fast, is no reason to moan and complain! Just sit back and watch to see if K.Fed gets Brit’s kids…oh the dramaturgical approach to life, I think life tis a stage…although the current stage is getting ready to crumble.
Also, someone meets girls through gaming? Does the girl happen to have a beard and live in mom’s basement?
Comment by Bubba — 20 September 2007 @ 2:51 PM
“Also, someone meets girls through gaming? Does the girl happen to have a beard and live in mom’s basement?”
only if she was a Tolkien-esque Dwarf, clearly.
Comment by patricia — 20 September 2007 @ 11:18 PM
Our ancestors did not need to become wild humans,
we do
Comment by _Gi — 21 September 2007 @ 12:41 PM
No, seriously, the last 3 games I’ve run have all had more female gamers than male. For a while my entire gaming group (myself excluded) was female.
Comment by Andrew Jensen — 21 September 2007 @ 1:39 PM
Not according to them; they spoke of “becoming traditional” as a life-long process they never fully achieved.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 21 September 2007 @ 5:32 PM
…Adam said, “Wisdom is the gift I give you, nothing else. This is my legacy to you, the legacy I received from my father and he received from his father. It is the legacy of generations, from one to the next for all time. Your tools will grow blunt, your spears will shatter, your tents will crumble, your twine will fray, but this knowledge I’ve given you will not wear out. In a thousand generations it will still be as strong as it was thousand generations ago.”- TALES OF ADAM
Comment by walkswithsun — 1 October 2007 @ 2:30 PM
Yes I know I will look as a neofit here… sorry but, I didn’t understood anything… Which was exactly the difference with Ran? Is there a new divisionist idea here to apart humans into primitivists against…what? sorry, if anyone can resume for me, I’ll be gratefull… If not, no problem, I’ll pay more attention. Thanks.
Anyway, I think you (jason) could not be really wrong in you thoughts, or rude in your manners… may be just as passionate as a primitivist must be.
There have been some trouble to reach antropik, it had been showing me an error message saying something about a too busy server, or something.
Saludos from a real Maya tribe, in Yucatán
Comment by Mario G — 1 October 2007 @ 11:17 PM
You were lucky enough to miss some trolls I deleted then, Mario. There was no difference with Ran, not on this issue, anyway. This had to do with some irksome trolls who’ve since been deleted. But thank you for the support, it means a great deal to me.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 2 October 2007 @ 4:26 PM
“And for the gaming haters: Gaming is certainly a better pass-time than, for example, internet trolling.”
True, but come on, you gotta do something waiting in between games.
//end troll
Comment by Fenriswolfr — 2 October 2007 @ 11:38 PM
The poster who said that self-appointed purists are usually little more than a royal pain in the posterior had it right. I’ve said before that I really can’t imagine these people having the sort of social skills necessary to keep a real tribe going. Another thing is that the reason for all their vitriol is that they don’t like the way Jason spreads the word about primitivism and civilization’s inevitable fall. But the rancid personalities and foul temperaments these people display at every possible opportunity lead one to the conclusion that if they were the only people out there representing primitivist thought, primitivism would end up being as much the object of jokes and scorn among people in general as college-campus radical-leftist political correctness has become.
Perhaps these purist mavens would regard such scorn as a sign of their superiority as one of the lucky few who get to be born to their rad righteous “pure” primitivism. But those who walk around flaunting such attitudes are probably exactly the sort of people likely to meet an unfortunate end at the hands of their fellow primates once the collapse is well underway. Put more bluntly, recall the famous t-shirt slogan “The only reason some people are still alive is because it’s against the law to kill them.”
Comment by venuspluto67 — 5 October 2007 @ 11:25 AM
Damn.
I always miss out on the good trolling.
- Chuck
Comment by Chuck — 5 October 2007 @ 9:13 PM
Sorry for the thread resurrection, Jason, but I can’t find any contact details for you.
I have an interesting article on Australian Aborigines and their dwellings, but the newspaper didn’t put it online, I only have a scanned .pdf copy.
Comment by Steve Z — 9 October 2007 @ 12:10 AM
Hi Jason,
Hoping you haven’t fallen off the map. You coming back soon? Missing my Anthropik fix.
-Ted
Comment by Ted B — 11 October 2007 @ 7:32 AM
Just letting you know I and quite a few others are missing the regular posting
Hope you guys are alright and having fun
Comment by john — 11 October 2007 @ 3:36 PM
Venus, survivalism and rewilding are a joke among most of Western society, and their adherents seen as loonybirds. It doesn’t matter who’s espousing the belief if society does not take that belief seriously. I’ve observed the same thing with feminism. You can present the same damn idea from feminism nicely, you can have the most respected representative of feminism (whoever that is) present the idea, you can have Andrea Dworkin present the idea, it’s still gonna be rejected.
Any time you have an idea that goes against the mainstream or is perceived to threaten it, or both, you’re going to run into this. And personally I don’t have much use for people who think that not being rude to other people is “political correctness.”
Not that I have a problem with the idea of being rude to people who deserve rudeness. The thing with what is now termed “PC” is that its adherents shunned being rude to a person simply because of the population group they belong to. In short, that it’s not nice to kick someone when they’re already down. I don’t know how this got evolved into something that everyone should mock, and it is a cop-out to blame campus radical activists. If the message is sound it doesn’t matter who delivers it or how they do so. You don’t judge the advice by its giver, you judge it by its own merits.
This stuff just aggravates me, and it’s part of the reason the world is in such a mess. Because none of us are willing to be responsible for our own actions and beliefs. It’s always, “Someone else is working on the problem,” or “It’s not my problem,” or “You’re a big meaniehead and you look funny so I’m not gonna listen to you,” and how much more of that crap can the species take before we run out of time for things like rewilding?
Comment by Dana — 13 October 2007 @ 1:54 AM
Okay, Dana. Let’s say I know what you look like, take particular umbrage at your response, and replied with a comment calling you a lardass or four-eyes or a pencil-neck or something like that. Would that make me somebody whose thoughts and opinions were worth hearing out in your estimation?
Comment by venuspluto67 — 15 October 2007 @ 12:31 PM
Hi
Since my native language isn’t English, the meaning of this post is lost on me. Could anyone please explain to me in a few words, the true message of this post?
Thanks
Comment by Torjus Gaaren — 20 October 2007 @ 1:52 AM
Yes, it’s worth it, Venus, because you are human, and your contribution matters. By not ceding to your violent demands, I break down your ugly comments, and get to know you. Acceptance, allowing yourself to be insulted, is how breakdowns become breakthroughs. When Jesus talked about turning the the otehr cheek, what he really meant was to make the person slap you with the inside of their hand, ad the original, a backhand, was also done to insult your manhood. By standing up to your attacker, and demanding them insult you like a ‘man’, you generally diffuse the situation of disrespect before the second slap.
So my theory and point is to LEARN to take those slaps in stride. It’s like ignoring the bully. it’s not something you do right away, it happens over time as you turn indignation into self-dignity.
By demanding someone REALLY insult you, they and you both realize they may not even have it in them.
Sticks and Stones, my friend, sticks and stones…
Comment by TonyZ — 3 November 2007 @ 1:37 AM
great post! I loved it …
Comment by timeLESS — 28 December 2007 @ 10:20 AM