Cycles Vicious & Virtuous
by Jason GodeskyI think most prospective rewilders can share my dilemma. We hear about the fabulous adventures of those successful trackers, educators and idols of our movement who’ve found some way to dedicate themselves, full-time, to their passion, usually thanks, at least in part, to a supportive and understanding community (often their own family) who have the means and the will to support those endeavors. Good for them, and we all owe the people who support them a measure of gratitude for giving us those motivating, inspirational icons, but it makes for a model few of us can really emulate. Perhaps our families don’t really understand what we hope and wish for (and given the massive amounts of disinformation and propaganda invested into discouraging such pursuits, we can hardly blame them), or perhaps they simply don’t have the capacity to support our endeavors, as unlikely as they seem to ever net any economic benefit that our society would recognize. We do not have the skills, nor the community support of any kind of tribe, to rely on our earth skills for shelter and sustenance; if we tried to shelter ourselves and feed ourselves with what we know now, we’d only ensure our death, whether by starvation, thirst or exposure.
Yet the daily grind of engaging in the civilized economy to procure our basic needs can make it seem like we have no time (or energy) left to devote towards the future, because everything we have goes towards simply maintaining our dreary present. We hope that we might one day put that daily grind behind us and start living, but as one week after another slips through our fingers, frustration sets in. Rewilding can come to seem like a hopeless Catch 22. At times like that, we have to remember that we can break that cycle.
I haven’t made regular posts here for quite some time, specifically because I’ve made some progress in that regard. For the past several years, I worked for a software start-up, and before that, I went to college studying computer science. In both communities, the same mindset prevailed: total dedication to “the goal” (in the latter, the success of the company, and usually the dream of a big IPO or sale of the company that would give all of us, as stock-holders, early retirements; in the former, graduation), with immensely long hours and generally the burning of our physical health as a sadistic kind of fuel. Long hours meant chronic sleep deprivation; no time to cook meant constantly eating out and relying on junk food for a quick burst of energy. Caffeine substituted for sleep, and junk food substituted for food. That cycle meant constant obesity and poor health.
Dave Pollard’s graph of vicious vs. virtuous cycles.
Dave Pollard helped me put in proper terms what I had gotten myself into, and what I needed to do next.
This false economy leads us to buy what we don’t need, which requires us to work harder to pay for those unnecessary goods and services, leaving us even less time to look after ourselves and our own needs and forcing us, in a vicious cycle to “outsource” even more of the things we might be doing for ourselves. All this phony economic activity is added to the GDP and employment data. Do-it-yourself and other “unpaid” work, and things we make for ourselves, are not considered “economic” activities and hence not included in the statistics that drive our society’s political and economic decisions. No surprise then that the government encourages us to buy what we don’t need and what we could provide for ourselves.
By contrast, the Gift Economy does not value monetized activity more highly than un-monetized activity. It suggests, on the contrary, that our time is invaluable and that therefore we should “spend” it, as much as possible, doing things we love and things that are our personal responsibility, and only buy goods and services we cannot possibly provide for ourselves. In doing these things ourselves, we learn to do them better, more efficiently, more effectively and more economically, saving the cost of outsourcing them to a third party.
Blaming myself for the vicious cycle that had caught me made little sense. A great deal went into creating it, and trying to reverse its outcomes (poor health, obesity, no time for rewilding) without addressing its underlying cause (underestimating the value of my time) made no sense, just as you’ll fail to convince anyone else of rewilding by blaming the symptoms of their vicious cycle (playing video games or lazing about), rather than addressing the causes of that cycle—the things people desperately need, and do not have. What good does blame do, to change the plight of the desperately needy, needy for the most important things of all—connection to family and land, participation in a more-than-human world, and a respect for their own humanity? First, I needed to correct the fundamental problem, and recognize how preciously I should value my time. That changed the balance of the way I lived, and it made the way I had lived suddenly appear exorbitantly expensive in terms of those things that matter most.
The first step came with something as simple as finding a new job, one that allowed for an easier pace. I found that after quite some time, though once I did, it introduced some new problems, as well.
One of the most common perks the software start-up offers comes in the trade-off that, while they may expect absolute dedication of time and energy, they also will accommodate you extensively, as far as dress and manners go. I could wear moccasins to the office, or even go barefoot, and no one (well, aside from the sales team) would complain. In my new job, I have many more options with my time, but I also have to meet certain standards of appearance, particularly in dress. I have to dress in “business casual,” and this made fox walking rather difficult.
My spiffy new shoes: the VivoBarefoot Dharma.
That article sparked some discussions about shoes that do less damage, or do a better job of getting out of the way to let people walk humanly. VivoBarefoot came up several times, so I took a closer look. My recent birthday, and the generosity of my family, put the pair pictured here on my feet. It even came with a “little red book” that repeated some claims that regular readers may find familiar (though here, I’ve finally found a collection of studies, so you might see a new article with more references later on).
They look “ordinary” enough to meet my office dress requirements, but still allow me to fox walk. It has made an enormous difference. The dull, constant pain in my heels returned after just one day in ordinary shoes, and after just one day in my new VivoBarefoot shoes, it left. In the fox-walking article, I quoted a barefoot hiker who compared the shoed experience of stomping upon the earth, to the barefooted experience of stepping into the earth. I can feel that in my stride. It makes walking a tactile experience, and that connection of stepping into the earth really does reverberate. Maybe you can attribute it to my instantly improved posture, or maybe you can attribute it to that feeling of groundedness in the landscape, but the simple act of walking now make me feel strong and confident, and that makes me want to do it more.
Another problem my new job has introduced lies in its location. I lived close to where I once worked, but the new office lies at the end of a very long commute. What extra time I should get to enjoy now, the commute eats entirely, and sometimes it eats some more, besides. To say nothing of the ecological impact of so much driving, or the cost of so much gas, what I feel most acutely, personally, comes from so much lost time! But I have found something useful to fill that time with: learning bird language. Also for my recent birthday, Giuli got me not just the “Birding by Ear” CD set, but also, “More Birding by Ear” and “A Field Guide to Bird Songs.” I keep going over sections again and again, until I get them down, so I haven’t even finished the first set yet, but it allows me to do something productive with all those wasted hours on the parkway.
My urban apartment leaves me precious few options for things like growing herbs, or even finding a decent “secret spot” to go through the Kamana program I tried to start, and ultimately had to put on hold for precisely this reason. This new job will allow me to move out into suburbia, pay less in rent and put more towards saving up for my rewilding endeavors; I’ll have green space close enough to grow my own herbs, and maybe even find a suitable “secret spot” close enough to visit regularly. I’ll have more time, and that will mean I’ll have the chance to progress further with my rewilding. With more time, I’ll have the chance to cook my own meals more often, and that will mean I’ll have the chance to put to use local foods, and perhaps even foraged foods, things I simply didn’t have time for before. Like Dave Pollard pointed out, these cycles reinforce each other; the vicious cycle eats your time, and continues to eat more and more of it as it progresses. The virtuous cycle gives you time, and then gives you more and more as it progresses. I feel like I’ve broken the vicious cycle that began consuming me all the way back in college, and though I haven’t yet reaped all the benefits I hoped for, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel: instead of fading off inexorably into the future, I can begin to see some hope that I might have a chance to really live after all!
I’ve never been a big fan of time management schedules; I find that when I regiment my time, I end up setting myself up to squander it. The idea that my time is valuable and my own is one that has been corrupted by the years of scholastic hazing. This is something that I endeavor to unlearn; rather than look to an institution or society or whatever to tell me how I should be spending my time, I need to look to myself. What do I want to accomplish in the next few years, and in the coming decades? What skills do I wish to develop?
I think that the first step to building community begins with, and always will remain, looking inward and keeping yourself healthy. When the artificial delineations between yourself and the rest of the world begin to fade away, that is when you will have found your tribe.
Comment by Brian J. — 12 February 2008 @ 2:11 PM
glad to hear things are turning around for you!
Comment by jhereg — 12 February 2008 @ 2:48 PM
Hey Jason,
I hear you, dude. I’m in an exploring phase now, and one of my first steps was to get the hell away from NYC. I’m not doing all that I want to just yet, but there are options, and I’m happy not to be producing disvalue. I like the virtuous cycle graph- it helps frame things well/
About fox-walking: I haven’t had much luck doing it. I do have the same sense of stepping into the ground you described, and I have a pair of Vivos I got secondhand that I’ve worn, but it really hasn’t stuck. I don’t notice the sort of constant pain in my own feet that you describe, and most of the time I just feel awkward when fox-walking. Part of it is lack of practice, I imagine, but I’m having a hard time mustering the energy to practice. I know on some level that it’s good, but it just hasn’t translated kinesthetically for me. Any tips?
Comment by Archangel — 12 February 2008 @ 10:50 PM
good to see you posting again, Jason!
and i’m right there with you, man…the 40+ hour work week is soul-killing. but you got it–the direction is the most important thing…are you treading water? drowning? or learning (although slowly) to swim?
every precious moment you reclaim, you win.
you are lucky to have someone like G. who gets it, and can support your efforts.
i’ve periodically toyed with crafting a step-by-step for The Wage Slave, trying to break it all down to the easiest first steps that give the most reward and positive feedback for turning it around (but, wait for it, i can’t find the time to finish it! of course!) i think it is needed, though. we all know more or less where we are now (hell?) and where we want to be…but how to get there? where to begin? it is quite the riddle.
Comment by patricia — 12 February 2008 @ 11:59 PM
I already had an inkling that you were as trapped in civilisation as most first worlders, but this essay was still kind of crushing to read. It also reinforces the impression that the rewilding movement is more theory than practice, more ideas than examples, all talk and no say.
The american psyche is steeped in the myth of redemption and rebirth, but sooner or later you have to face that a lot of the consequences of our prior personal habits and choices (especially poor health) are in many ways permanent. That isnt to saying improving your diet and the way you use your body wont have some benefits over doing more of the same. But being strong and developed to your full potential is something that we each only get one chance at, and the consequences of past poor choices echo across multiple generations.
The world is about to change dramatically and we need to take our choices very seriously. How confident can any of us really be that you are leading us in a useful direction?
Comment by Shane — 13 February 2008 @ 12:50 AM
Shane,
Jason has never made a secret of his being inside of civilization. I found the essay a bit uplifting in that he is finding a way out.
I disagree that we only get one chance, but I will agree that every chance you pass up makes the challenge even harder.
> How confident can any of us really be that you are leading us in a useful direction?
This one actually bugged me. Jason is not some cult leader taking us to the promised land. Jason is “just this guy, you know”. Jason is trying to document his successes and failures in his move toward an uncivilized lifestyle. If you expect some sort of twelve step program from him I don’t think you’re going to be satisifed.
–
JimFive
Comment by JimFive — 13 February 2008 @ 8:20 AM
Archangel,
I’ve been going barefoot since the beginning of last summer, but not so much of late due to the cold. It’s been easier for me since I’m in college and have a programming job also on campus. I have found that I cannot fox walk in shoes at all. My gait changes from toe walking to heel walking the more I wear shoes.
It actually took me a few tries to get fox walking properly. I first tried a few years ago, and it just never stuck until this time. My advice is to just be patient because you are changing very old habits. Take it slow, don’t get mad at yourself, and you’ll get there. Hope that helps.
Jim,
That’s what I like most about this “movement”! No one is in charge, so if I see a promising lead I can follow it. I’m a very independent person, and when my style is restricted by authority figures I go wander off somewhere else.
Comment by William Carrington — 13 February 2008 @ 11:37 AM
Hey J –
Happy Belated Birthday, dude!
I’m glad to hear that this particular travail is coming to a close… I feel you on this one, big time… although the details are different, I too have been stuck in a holding pattern these last months and very much looking forward to May when it will finally be broken. Just have to make it through until then without too much stress or drama or psychosis
(gotta get the f*** out of Denver… I am NOT a city person any more, you know!)
Anyway… good luck with the next phase and remember that whatever the plans, today is important, too.
Janene
Comment by Janene — 13 February 2008 @ 12:10 PM
I’m feeling you Jason. It’s not easy to open yourself up and be vulnerable. You’re an inspiration to me. I think you can do it, just take it one step at a time. Don’t overwhelm yourself.
Comment by DancesWithHolepuncher — 14 February 2008 @ 7:04 PM
Yet the daily grind of engaging in the civilized economy to procure our basic needs can make it seem like we have no time (or energy) left to devote towards the future, because everything we have goes towards simply maintaining our dreary present. We hope that we might one day put that daily grind behind us and start living, but as one week after another slips through our fingers, frustration sets in.
Couldn’t agree more with you Jason. This has been my dilemma for some time now, but am slowly paying off my debt and hopefully soon, will be able to take another step away.
Have you ever thought of doing freelance work? I work freelance most of the time and it provides me with more time than working 40 hours a week at an office does. Just a thought.
Comment by Peter D — 15 February 2008 @ 11:58 AM
I lived in the woods for a year. 6 months trying to be a forager but finding it hard to overcome my addictions, and 6 months gardening and being lonely out in the country, so I went to opposite route and got a job in a city on the other side of the world, in Korea, teaching English (I have loans to repay). The opportunities for rewilding out here are slim, but like you, with a source of income, when I return to the States, I will be able to focus more on what I want to do, and where I can do it. Anyway, I had two silly questions.
1) Do you wear socks in the vivobarefoot shoes? Like for cold days, or so you have something to absorb footsweat? Or do socks defeat the purpose??
2) Is there anyway you can rip a copy of birding by ear to mp3 and make it available on the web? I would love to practice here, but its obviously not sold here, and buying it and shipping it would cost a lot.
Comment by acornrevolution — 15 February 2008 @ 7:30 PM
The Titanic continues to feed us and the band is still playing, even though water is rushing in the lower levels and the engines have about stopped…jumping off into the harsh ocean in a lifeboat with little skills appears daunting, although intellectually it appears to be the only course of action that gives us a chance, but the titanic is still above water, and they are still providing meals, and that damn music certainly is entertaining, guess we will have to wait a little longer…timing is everything
Comment by Bubba — 16 February 2008 @ 8:32 AM
“i’ve periodically toyed with crafting a step-by-step for The Wage Slave, trying to break it all down to the easiest first steps that give the most reward and positive feedback for turning it around…”
Patricia, that would be extremely cool. If you ever do write this I’ll be first in line to read it
“Have you ever thought of doing freelance work? I work freelance most of the time and it provides me with more time than working 40 hours a week at an office does.”
I freelanced for a long time then eventually made it an official small business. I still work 40 hours a week, but the commute from my bedroom to my home office takes about 8 seconds, I have almost eliminated the junk food pressures (so long as I am not lazy about getting real groceries), I make my own schedule, I’ve cut my driving down to just a few short trips per week, and my feet spend more time out of shoes than in them. If it’s a beautiful day I go out for a walk and don’t think twice about it. There’s a lot of paperwork hassle and I have to pay taxes rather than getting a return but these are minor irritants compared to the improvements in my quality of life.
Comment by Anonymous — 16 February 2008 @ 2:46 PM
Archangel: I had some trouble at first, too. Some muscles had atrophied over the past decades, and got very upset when I asked them to pull their weight (rather literally). Once I got past that, I started to enjoy the benefits, first of relieved pain, then better stature, and now soaking through even into my disposition and psychology, as all that sum up to me generally feeling better, stronger and more confident. I suppose for a while, it simply takes some commitment, until you see enough of those benefits that it can sustain itself.
JimFive: Thanks for sparing me having to write a fairly nasty response to Shane. Just to reiterate what you said, I’ve never laid claim to any kind of leadership. How could I, when I want to abolish leadership? I just try to make some headway, and hope that someone out there might benefit from my experiences, whether by considering something I say as a good idea, or just learning from my mistakes. I think we need an “open source” rewilding revolution, and that only happens when we share our ideas and experiences. “How confident can any of us really be that you are leading us in a useful direction?” Not at all; you should never feel confident that anyone leads you. Basically, if you find yourself following someone, you’ve already set off in the wrong direction!
Janene: Thanks! Good to hear from you! Sounds like you might break out at almost the same time I will.
“Dances With Holepuncher”: I don’t know if you meant that sarcastically or not, but I don’t think this really represents anything worth looking up to. I just have some ideas that have helped me move a little bit along, when I might otherwise get caught just standing still. Even in his “Art of Mentoring” classes, Jon Young reminds people that you have to always come up to the boundaries of your comfort zone. If you don’t, you won’t make any progress; if you go much further than that, you push too hard and recoil. I don’t recommend anyone trying to run off into the woods without preparation or community. No one ever said that rewilding would happen overnight. That makes it important to find ways to break away however you can, and with all the ways that the civilized world sinks its hooks in, I think it helps all of us to share what ways we find that work for us, so we can all benefit from that.
Peter: I’ve tried tilting at freelance a few times now, but I’ve never succeeded in building up enough of a pipeline. I’ll probably try again sometime down the road, though, since that really does start to give you enough control over your schedule to really see that virtuous cycle through, so you can scale down the amount you work as you scale down the amount of money you need. I don’t know too many bosses, after all, that would feel terribly pleased when you come in and say, “Hey, chief, I only need half as much money now, so how about you pay me half my salary, and I only come in half as often?” Suggest that, and most places will just give you the boot; you may have reduced your monetary needs by half, but that doesn’t mean you’ve gotten it down to no monetary needs at all! So you wind up working more than you need, to get more money than you really want, simply because you can’t cut it any closer. Freelance gives you the ability to control that flow yourself, so yes, I probably will try again.
Acorn Revolution: I, personally, do not wear socks with these shoes, though I imagine you could, without losing too much of the benefit. It did get me pretty cold recently, with the snow falling and some of it getting into my shoe, but hey, all part of rewilding my feet, right? As for ripping the CD, absolutely not! I would never use a public forum like this to help spread illegal, pirated music. You all know what high regard I have for intellectual property!
Bubba: I think that rather illuminates why metaphors can only get you so far. Every metaphor eventually breaks down. Nobody’s standing still or feeling complacent; really, if you must stick to the metaphor, I’d compare this more to taking the time to lower a lifeboat, first, as opposed to panicking and jumping headlong into the freezing waters. You may recall, but a good number of the people who died from the Titanic froze to death, rather than drowning.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 16 February 2008 @ 9:54 PM
No, Jason, I wasn’t being sarcastic. You are a leader, leading by example, not a cult leader to be blindly followed. Sharing the things you’re going through and the highs and lows helps us all. I’ve thought about rewilding for a long time, but I never set up a website to help others, and I haven’t had the courage of my convictions to really start rewilidng until recently, because I found your website. Reading your blog and thirty thesises lets me know that Im not alone and I’m not crazy. There’s a community out there that sees things the same way I do.
Comment by DancesWithHolepuncher — 16 February 2008 @ 11:01 PM
Sorry for the suspicion; I’ve found myself dogged by some fairly nasty trolls in the past, and it may have made me a bit cynical. I don’t know if I feel comfortable ever having the title of “leader,” but if my experience has helped you, I feel grateful for that. That alone vindicates this whole website and all the effort I’ve put into it. Thanks for letting me know; it feels good to know that my efforts haven’t failed.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 17 February 2008 @ 10:37 AM
Hey Jason, have you read this yet?
http://www.greenuniversity.net/Green_Economics/jobtrap.htm
Tom Elpel is one of the freest guys I know, and very practical about helping others to freedom. While I haven’t read it myself, I’ve heard his book “Direct Pointing to Real Wealth” is pretty good. Might be worth checking out.
Also, I’d like to respond a bit to Shane’s words about the “rewilding movement” being more theory than practice, by giving some links to a number of very practical rewilders around N. America. In my experience, rewilding is probably the most practice oriented “social movement” America has ever seen (also one of the smallest, but that’s probably just as it should be). I think this is especially true when compared to any of the political or religious movements that have occurred in America. Not even the hippies were as practically oriented as my experience of rewilders. Go to Rabbitstick or Rivercane Rendezvous or Feral Visions and there will be plenty of focus on practice.
Anyway, here are some links to practice-oriented folks (Just realize that the fact that I list a website here doesn’t mean I’m recommending it, rather I’m using it as an example of practice over theory…and btw, for those that know me, I’m no longer working for the Teaching Drum Outdoor School):
http://www.wildroots.org/index.php
http://www.dancinghawk.com/
http://www.ancestralways.net/about-us/
http://www.teachingdrum.org/
http://www.wolfjourney.com/
http://www.earthknack.com/internships.html
http://www.hollowtop.com/
http://www.foragersharvest.com/
http://nativeways.com/
http://www.trackersnw.com/html/pdx/immersion/adult_immersion.php
http://primitivepursuits.net/pp/index.htm
http://www.practicalprimitive.com/
Jason wrote: “Jon Young reminds people that you have to always come up to the boundaries of your comfort zone. If you don’t, you won’t make any progress; if you go much further than that, you push too hard and recoil.” And: “Not at all; you should never feel confident that anyone leads you. Basically, if you find yourself following someone, you’ve already set off in the wrong direction!”
Good points. In my experience it’s best to play with and surf comfort zones, as well as move with those who are going where we want to go and doing what we want to do — which is not the same thing as following a leader. Elders can be helpful, but elders are not leaders, and are best not followed on faith. The times when I’ve forgotten these principles have always (not always right away, but always at some point) caused setbacks in my process.
Comment by RedWolfReturns — 18 February 2008 @ 2:39 AM
Anytime you guys face some serious scrutiny you duck behind a semantic smoke screen. So Jason isnt a “leader” or “authority” because that would be coercive and oppressive and bad. So relabel him as an “advocate” if that is more palatable. Would anyone argue that Jason is advocating a paleolithic lifestyle as an adaptive strategy?
But my basic concern is that his position is based mostly on theory, derived mostly from historic examples, with very little modern day hands-on practice to back it up. Wouldnt it be much more convincing to give accounts of spending weeks or months at the very least subsisting in a real modern-day wilderness area? Or better yet suburban weedscapes? A sprig of foraged dandelion to go with your store bought grass fed steak is pretty unconvincing.
An afternoon of arts and crafts, eating more meat and buying a different brand of shoes is about all I have seen so far other than labyrinthine essays and “ancients did this/we will do this….later” non-sequitors.
You can take this as trolling and wave me away. Or you can take it as a stimulus to get serious, get active and test your theories. With the way the world is going this matter isn’t just an amusing mind-game anymore.
Comment by Shane — 18 February 2008 @ 3:08 AM
Shane, Jason doesn’t generally post about their “nitty-gritty” activities because there are already many websites doing that. In terms of this website, he prefers to focus on aspects of rewilding that don’t get as much attention. That doesn’t mean that Anthropik doesn’t get out for “dirt time”.
Seems to me like you’re making an unnecessary assumption.
Comment by jhereg — 18 February 2008 @ 7:45 AM
You can call it a semantic smokescreen, but the difference between and advocate and a leader is immense. I wouldn’t call Jason a leader, not because that would be “bad”, but because it wouldn’t be true. I, for one, am not a disciple of the church of Godesky (should that be G-desky?, go ahead, laugh, it might even be funny). I’m not convinced that Jason has made the case that Agriculture is impossible in the near(<500yr) term. While Jason certainly advocates in favor of a paleolithic lifestyle, he is much more likely to say to someone “go do that” than “come do this with me”. If many people are going down I-75, is the one in front the leader? Not in the sense that you used the word.
Since I’m feeling aphorstic today: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. In some sense, you’re right. Jason presents on this website an anthropological, historic, and philosophical argument that a paleolithic lifestyle is:
a) The lifestyle we evolved to live
b) Preferable to our current society
and
c) Going to happen whether anyone likes it or not so be prepared.
Probably not. To show that something is possible is not the same as showing that it is either desirable or necessary.
Doesn’t that depend on what he is trying to convince you of?
–
JimFive
Comment by JimFive — 18 February 2008 @ 12:34 PM
Red Wolf Returns: Sorry, sometimes the spam filter gets carried away. I saved your message here. No, I hadn’t read that link, but it sounds like Elpel says a lot of the same things I’ve told myself. Putting that into practice, getting into that “virtuous cycle” where you can create more time, well, that can present a little more of a challenge. I feel good to see some forward movement, but it’s taken some time to do it.
Shane: Firstly, I feel no reason to respond to this shallow straw man you’ve set up of what I “preach,” since we have a pretty clear record of that. What I actually wrote included things like this:
So why should I defy the things that I have actually said, simply to fulfill the shallow projection you’d care to cast this week? If you don’t mind, I think I’ll stick to the positions I’ve actually espoused, rather than the ones you’d like to shoe-horn me into.
As jhereg pointed out, I don’t talk much here about the practical things we do, because you’ll find no end of places that have already done that better. You may recall, when I began the “Storied Landscape” series, I mentioned that I had finally found something “practical” that you couldn’t get from a whole shelf of field guides and books at the nearest Barnes & Noble. If I tell you how I gathered a meal last weekend, and what foods I gathered, what have I told you that you couldn’t easily have found for yourself from far more reliable and thorough sources? And worse, if I tell you how wonderful fresh Queen Anne’s Lace tastes, and you decide based on that to go chomp on the roots of some Water Hemlock, suddenly I have legal culpability for that. Why would I waltz into that minefield, when I could only hope to reproduce what others have already done so well? Why should I waste my time duplicating that effort, when so much necessary ground remains completely untrod?
I do point out new things I try that might help others, though. Hence, this article. But you presume far too much if you think I write about even a tenth of the things I do in my own rewilding here. And I’ve never seen you there, so how would you know? Did you see my closet full of herbal remedies, that I gathered and prepared myself? Did you see the permaculture designs I’ve started to plant in the Clarion River watershed? Did you ever use my bowdrill? Walk in my moccasins? Tell me, Shane, what makes you think you know anything about me?
But let’s turn the tables. Tell me, Shane, what have you done? I know you have enough time to constantly nit-pick and harass us. I know that no matter how many times we debunk the same tired arguments, you’ll always come around to raise them again, as if we hadn’t already had that discussion a thousand times over. I know you have enough time to pester us over the internet like a gadfly, constantly buzzing about, never contributing anything of value, just doing your level best at all times to drag everything down. Do you honestly think that you offer “serious scrutiny”? You flatter yourself! “Serious scrutiny” would at least raise new points, if not always salient ones. I could understand the points you raised the first time; and then, having those rather easily answered, we could have moved on. I love serious scrutiny. But you don’t offer that, any more than a gadfly offers that. Repeating the same lame argument over and over again does not make it any more “serious.”
And if you think that only a “semantic smokescreen” separates a leader from an advocate, then your attention prior to buzzing about my head, little gadfly, appears even more superficial than I had thought.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 18 February 2008 @ 12:37 PM
Not quite what you’d asked for, but I’ve uploaded Jon Young’s Seeing Through Native Eyes and Advanced Bird Language to alt.binaires.sounds.mp3.spoken-word.
Enjoy!
Comment by shitbrain — 19 February 2008 @ 1:23 AM
hello,
i do not know if this is the right place to ask this… I am a regular reader of this blog,
and there have been a couple of questions coming to mind after reading so many of Jason’s excellent posts, and thinking about the ideas of the primitivist movement.
- feminism is a trend that soared mostly in Western countries post WWII. It made sense in our civilized, and somehow patriarchal background. Now do you think it will be possible to include ideas about equality of opportunities between men and women in the future rewilded cultures ? Has it been done before, in the examples you know of primitive cultures, past or present ?
- feminine emancipation was largely linked to the “vulgarization” and easier access to contraceptives. Chemical contraceptives might be somewhat dependant on petroleum-synthetized products, or maybe are already present in some plants. Some techniques are relatively “low-tech”, but might still require modern medecine (what we call “sterylet” in French, and “IUD” in English, I think). Anyway, have you heard of, or do you know, contraceptive techniques used by primitive peoples ? And pre-coïtal withdrawal does not count to me…
- have you ever thought of people who have disabilities ? Tom Brown Jr once claimed that one of his best students was blind. Here I am actually thinking of people who have genetic muscular diseases, with fragilized muscles, etc… Or even a hunter who has lost a leg… So have you ever thought of “particular cases” like these ? Have you got some knowledge of existing (past or present) primitive peoples who have handled these cases, with another approach thna bluntly killing the person… I mean, one of the good things about living in first-world countries middle class is that, provided some social care, a disabled person in a wheelchair can have (not always, unfortunately) chances to be somewhat autonomous in being able to eat, or to work (thus contributing to society, and getting money)…
I think that it is possible to keep some of the equalitarian values in the cultures we will create, even if those values never appeared before in previous primitive cultures. Do you think it makes sense to think of these questions ?
Speaking of values, I haven’t grasped the difference between horticulturalists and permaculture. Is there any ? Would you say the Hopi Indians were horticulturalists ? They were growing corn, after all.
Last, but not least, I have a really stupid question : can H-G/horticulturalist people catch a cold ? How do they handle that ?
Thanks for reading (at least)
J.V. maurice
Comment by Jean-Vivien Maurice — 19 February 2008 @ 6:10 AM
i’ll make an attempt to field at least some of these, tho’ Jason will be more able to provide concrete references (what can i say? i’m a poor scholar).
relationships between men & women tend to have a great deal to do with the lifestyle inherent to a culture. hunter/gatherers tend strongly to more egalitarian relationships than many other subsistence methods. horticulturalists tend to be matrilineal, if not entirely egalitarian.
in summary, female roles will inevitably change (as will male roles), but a patriarchal society rarely subsists via horticulture or h/g; they’re almost entirely pastoralist or agriculturalists or some combination thereof.
contraceptives and abortifacients are actually widely available to anyone who has the knowledge to find them. wild carrot, for example, appears to have an excellent track record. for more info, see this article: http://robinrosebennett.com/wild_carrot%20article.htm
NOTE: it’s very important that you be able to identify wild carrot w/ 100% accuracy before using it as there are similar plants that are toxic.
in summary, most “primitive” people have always had free access to birth control as the knowledge of how to use the plants in the area was common knowledge (at least among women).
well, i would think to a certain extent, people are generally healthier living as either h/g’s or horticulturalists, but, as we all know, shit happens. again, i’m a poor scholar, but i believe that we have considerable evidence that the disabled and elderly are generally well taken care of in h/g & horticultural societies. i know that there have been reported instances of senior citizens in such societies voluntarily sacrificing themselves (via ice floe or some such) when times are particularly tough. in the instances of which i’ve heard, these acts are accompanied by pleas of dissuasion from the younger folk.
in summary, h/g’s & horticulturalists tend to take care of their own and value contributions made by others who have different experiences and different insights (two things often associated w/ disabilities).
i wouldn’t call it a stupid question. and since, at the moment, my mom is barely insured and is fighting off an infection, i feel safe in saying that, again, handling it is somewhat different, but not terribly. again, understanding what different plants can do and how to prepare them can be critical. obviously, rest is important, along w/ fluids; but there are also a large number of immune system supporting plants out there, and many of them either grow wild or are easily cultivated as part of horticulture. i eventually convinced my mom to start taking a raw garlic preparation (raw garlic is one source of natural antibiotics). even tho she hasn’t completely recovered yet, it’s helped considerably.
i hope this helps. i apologize again for not providing much in the way of concrete references….
Comment by jhereg — 19 February 2008 @ 9:18 AM
well thank you for taking time to read & answer my post.
I usually agree with what you say, and here I’d like to belive you, the thing is I would be interested in finding references. This way people wont be able to invoke lack of sufficient studies to claim that primitive living was nasty, brutish and short.
I do not know if there are any en-masse studies of life expectancies, since it requires vast amounts of statistical data. Regarding the cold, I wonder if the environment where you lived, and the temperature scales, determined the likeness of succumbing to a cold. Modern studies of Kalahari bushmen are a specific case : I do not think you can catch a cold in the Kalahari (though i may be wrong). On the other hand, I do not know how well my ancestors living in Dordogne fared (south west of France is a temperate climate).
Comment by Jean-Vivien Maurice — 19 February 2008 @ 12:10 PM
Sgëno, Jean-Vivien! Thanks for your comments. If you don’t mind, I’ll just dive right in….
Wild people look out for each other, even as far back as the Neanderthals. Our examples of the deformed or handicapped left to die all come from civilized societies, like the Spartans. Mothers in wild cultures did sometimes commit infanticide, which they reckoned as a kind of abortion, but not on the basis of deformity or handicap. Sure, such members might slow you down in some respects, but in others, they can help greatly. Animists typically define power as a multiplicity of perspectives, so, like jhereg said, the deformed or handicapped may make excellent shamans, since they already have one unique perspective. Someone who can’t walk may have trouble moving from camp to camp, but he also can look after children while everyone else goes out to procure food. Our society has a bad habit of looking for the ways that people drag us down; wild cultures, by and large, look for ways that people can build us up. Maybe that has something to do with population, and how little one human life means when you have 6.5 billion others to choose from?
Ingold, T. 1994. From trust to domination: an alternative history of human-animal relations. In Animals and human society: changing perspectives, eds. A Manning and J Serpell. London: Routledge, pp 1-22.
Comment by Jason Godesky — 19 February 2008 @ 12:55 PM
I seem to recall that in Turnbull’s “The Forest People” there is some concern about the fate of a disabled girl in the camp. The girl had been treated by the villagers’ magic as well as by Western Medicine, if I recall correctly. A comment is made that the girl would eventually not be able to keep up and would be left to die. I’m not sure how much of that was Turnbull’s bias as opposed to being told to him by the tribe.
–
JimFive
Comment by JimFive — 19 February 2008 @ 3:24 PM
Hey Jason
I do enjoy a good debate. I suspect we generate so much discord because we are actually pretty close in our views and aims compared to the broader human perspective, you for primitivism and me for horticulturalism (with a definite chance of genetic tech revolution changing some basic rules of the game).
Jason-”I think that permaculture, as a modern movement, has largely reinvented the horticultural wheel.”
That reminds me- did you hear the one about the primitivist that called the horticulturalist unoriginal?
I would like to clarify that my criticism was of what you write here, and my disappointment that you didnt discuss more practical experiments and activities in more detail. I didn’t make any deeper assumptions or inferences about what you actually do, just that your writings lack “quantification” (for want of a word with rounded corners). I know what I know about you based on your writings, and my criticisms were directed as such.
I sympathise and agree with the position that total rewilding is virtually impossible while business as usual continues That is one of the reasons I think it is a poor adaptive choice. Of course it is possible in theory, however getting from A to B might be more of a problem for the foreseeable future. Quantitative behavioural experiments in a modern (ie degraded) environment would at least give an indication of how possible rewilding would be when forced. Calories gathered and the human energy and time expended are likely to be the limiting factor to post collapse survival. Your emphasis seems to be on medicinal herbs and primitive technologies, which while useful are only part of the requirements for life. I looked through your “directory” to try and dispell my impression that there isnt much critical evaluation in the rewilding movement. The list seems to be mostly about tracking skills, “feral failure” and discussions on culture and society. Am I missing a resource set here?
I am very interested in the idea of semiwild “permaculture” plantings on abandoned land. I was considering starting a similar thing in my area as a last resort living pantry. Many of my current wind breaks (Canna and Cassava) serve a similar role. “Guerilla gardening” has been bounced around as an idea for a while now but I am yet to see any documented success stories. I suspect there is more to channeling an ecosystems growth to suit your ends than you would expect. Burning seems to play an important part (something I am pretty sure most neighbors would appreciate you experimenting with).
Turning the tables on me is not a problem, so I will summarise my current approach and situation. I have tried to structure my life so that is doesnt depend on a total and continuing collapse to be of value, and that it wont leave me bitter and resentful if the collapse never comes in my lifetime.
Firstly I am 30 years old, living in subtropical eastern Australia, and trained as a research scientist. I gave it up when I judged there was a good chance the conditions supporting such a supply chain dependent career weren’t likely to persist (plus being a researcher is getting more horrid by the year as economies “rationalise”). I considered buying some fertile land with friends, but given the property bubble realised the better option was to facilitate my baby boomer parents moving out of the suburbs and into a rural acreage (they save me from a mortgage and I save them from the retirement home). That way there is no debt vulnerability and the close ties and like mindedness bind us together effectively. My sister lives in the same village with her young family so the family is further extended, giving extra incentive to generate a food supply. I currently walk to the train and work four days a week in the nearby city as a lab administrator, reducing my direct oil dependence. I would classify myself as relatively healthy and physically fit, though my physiology seems reactive to certains foods (additives, unfermented dairy and gluten, high oxalate/salicylate fruit and veg). I keep my health and physical work load at a fairly even keel on the farm and happily loosen soil (never turn) and hoe weeds all weekend long.
The farm itself is 2 acres on relatively fertile decomposed basaltic soil, ~60myo. Not quite the stereotypical depleted aussie soil, but not quite mekong river delta sediment either. We get around 1500-2000 mm of rain a year, traditionally mostly in the summer, so water is more often in excess than deficit. We get the occasional light frost. I have a half acre orchard of fruit and nut trees that I am currently part way through cultivating the rows between the trees to grow field crops. Early trials in the last two season put the yields of grains at around 1 tonne/acre equivalent (basic subsistence level yields for most grains), which means if we cultivated the whole 1 acre paddock we could feed 4 people per year (allowing half the time for fallow). We are trialling muscovy ducks to graze the green manure rotations in this space.
The top acre has a 400 sq m vegetable garden, split between summer and winter ends to allow a 5 month green manure crop at alternating ends. Part of that crop helps feed the chickens, but they still depend on store bought bulk grain for now. The rest of the top acre is under ornamental gardens, some lawn for access, and structures. The ornamental gardens are earmarked for conversion to food production if essential. We have installed 30 000L of rainwater storage capacity that can be gravity fed to the food gardens, but the first crops grew well with no supplementary irrigation in 2007.
In the first year of growing crops in just the 400 sq m veggie garden we produced 5-10% of the family’s calorific needs. Shifting the root crops and grains to the orchards in the next couple of years will increase this to around 50%, but production levels need to be balanced with time required for work and cash flow. In an all out collapse scaling up to 100% shouldnt be too much of a stretch. The gardens are all being prepared with solarising plastic (first up to kill the kikuyu) and hand tools. The veggie garden was done completely with hand tools to give me a sense of the work involved (hard but not too arduous if you are patient). I am adding copra, bran and calcium/magnesium rock dusts to the soil to build up fertility to begin with. Gentle swales and shelter belts are in place to minimise soil and water run off. We are about to install a composting toilet to close the nutrient cycle in future, but already collect urine for the green manure crops (which makes them go off like a rocket). I am convinced by Fukuoka and others experiments (with quantification) that resting land regularly restores much of its fertility. I suspect the energy percolating into the soil acts to bring up deeper nutrient reserves from the subsoil as we know now the microbial community goes down for hundreds of meters. Cultivating soil with sensitivity can increase its fertility over time.
This week I am launching a staple crop gathering initiative with our local permaculture group. The aim is to source enough genetic diversity within suitable staple crops to allow genuine self sufficiency if a future crisis hits (the movements emphasis mostly on low calorie vegetables so far). I have already grown buckwheat, amaranth, barley, wheat, sorghum, kidney beans, cowpeas, kumara, potato, parsnip, pumpkin etc toward this project.
My typical personal diet is something like- Breakfast- bowl of fruit with spoon of cultured plain yoghurt, sourdough fermented oat and buckwheat porridge. Lunch- mashed root vegetables with steamed/fresh veggies, boiled eggs or a legume/rice dish. Dinner-seasonal veg with weekly/biweekly meat (fish, kangaroo, lamb). I have given up on eating out due to the unavoidable additives and low quality ingredients. Of the typical ingredients in a day the fruit is bought (own trees still coming on), red meat is bought (but fish comes from our local lake that has a 100% uncontaminated catchment), vegetables are three quarters home grown, and grains and legumes are bought in bulk from a biodynamic source, and cooked in bulk to save time and energy.
In addition to the farming I have made a mental map of all the areas within a days walk from the farm that have a useful supply of wild root vegetables. Locally we have wild Cannas, Alpinia gingers and a starchy rooted swamp fern. These are of the dig-roast-eat kind so practicing eating them is a fair way down my priority list. Reintroducing wild yams has been an idea, even mass planting Macadamias and Carobs as street trees.
My expectation is that for the foreseeable future we will face more of the same trends, dropping real incomes, increasing price of living (especially food), increasing burden of stress and associated disease, declining job security and infrastructure. A distinct and complete collapse that makes rewilding a viable option may not happen until after we are long gone-the current system does have a lot of momentum and indulgences it can whittle down first. In the mean time we have to survive the steadily increasing mundane stresses, which in my view means successfully covering all bases.
Buying bulk grains is probably going to be possible and economical (or the most economical option) for people for quite some time, but very few people know how to cook with them from scratch. Sharon Astyk is right on the ball with this issue. We have lost the cultural legacy that allowed us to turn relatively inedible plant products into relatively nutritious food. Much of what HGers ate needed extensive careful preparation, so I don’t think it is unreasonable to put fermenting grains in a similar catagory of basic life skills for everyone.
That about sums me up, but feel free to grill me further. I see the most likely future scenario as a crappier version of today, so the answer is only a partial disconnection from the reigning economic system.
1. Reduce discretionary spending (get out of debt)
2. Work less (generate more free time)
3. Cook from scratch (save money, eat better)
4. Reskill (health, repairs, mechanical, etc)
5. Socialise (mutually supportive networks)
6. Garden (if circumstances allow)
Comment by Shane — 20 February 2008 @ 1:06 AM
I have read the Thesis #25, which provides more references. Is there any good (scientific ?) book you would recommend for a starter, on the same subjects (quality of life, social standards, etc…) ?
Do you also know a good book for starters about horticulture as practised by primitive peoples ? With anthropological and practical examples… I have started to read Holmgren’s “Permaculture Principles & Pathways towards sustainability” and find it good on a systemic level, but not on the practical level : it does not give examples of “Guilds”, or does not list plants which have deep roots as opposed to plants which have surface roots, etc… It is also very succinct on soil sciences aspects. And it seems to focus mainly on one type of service you can get from the ecosystem : food. This is what most permaculturists have in mind when they speak, and i understand that, since most of their speech intervenes in the context of energy descent, and by extent of food supply problems. But still it would be nice to have more thorough guidelines on how to manage ecosystems in a permaculture way : include other services (not just food, but medecine, clothing, etc) in permaculture designs.
I think the Bookstore on this website has too many books for me, and the books have no review… I am not a fast reader, this is why I am asking for advice here.
Thank you
Comment by Jean-Vivien Maurice — 20 February 2008 @ 5:33 AM
Jean-Vivien:
I recently started a thread to collect links for perma/horticultural methods & techniques on the rewild.info site. You can find the thread here: http://www.rewild.info/conversations/index.php?topic=741.0
As for books, I would first recomment Toby Hemenway’s “Gaia’s Garden”. As for perma/horticultural handling of more than just food, I’m not aware of any single comprehensive source, however, you may want to visit the Plants For a Future site here: http://www.pfaf.org/
it does a pretty good job of cataloging a wide variety of uses for a wide variety of plants. Bear in mind that not all of the info you find on that site will necessarily be of the kind resulting from direct experience, as that would be quite a tall order indeed!
If you’d like something fairly concrete to start with, you may want to review Emilia Hazelip’s methods here: http://fukuokafarmingol.info/faemilia.html
Shane:
hmm, so, do you necessarily see what you’re currently doing as mutually exclusive of primitivism? It seems as if you do, but, with the exception of the grain fields, I don’t understand why. We speak of foragers and horticulturalists, but it seems to me as if the line between them is more fluid than you imply.
In fact, what you suggest:
really doesn’t seem to me to be mutually inclusive